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Safr

Expansion Box and Modular Battleship

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Not overly excited for the model stats. Never thought Vulnerability should be on either the Cherbourg or the new Heat Lance models. It doesnt seem like a french thing. Id rather increase their cost by 10 pts or more and remove the MAR. And maybe reduce the Heat Lance spread a little. 

I do like the fuel reserves on Heat Lance Ships though, it just seems fitting when you are playing with fire all the time. Of course that is just my opinion. I do agree with Spartan Mike that trying to balance the Heat Lances can be tough. But I cant be certain until i try the model out on the high seas!

The model designs though never seem to fail for my liking, especially the gunships! Something about the design of the all gun French ships make me happy. Another reason why I made two gunnery battle cruisers out of the St. Malo :). I have based a few 3D models around their basic design for an off shoot experimental fleet for fun.

 

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I can live with vulnerable, but the additional fuel reserves on the Gascony MK2 is too much. Micro wave emitters are not powered by fuel! This MAR killing the precious crew makes it vulnerable to boarding, thus contradicting its role as a brawler. One more reason that prevents me from going toe to toe to the enemy to use the heat lance broadsides.

 

One more note: Gascony MK1 has considerable less AD over all rangebands when compared to a Magenta with turrets and cloud generator that is just 10 points more. Calculating the loss of AD, Gascony using air hunter only makes marginal more damage against obscured flying models than Magenta. The difference is much higher when firing at stratospheric targets and small targets, but this is rare. Gasconies heavy AA, raised turrets ad better torpedoes do not make up for the overall better armament and increased durability of Magenta. This makes Gascony Mk1 somewhat useless in my eyes. Why ever take a Gascony Mk1 when You can take a Magenta instead? That is why I think Gascony should cost less points.

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Fluffwise I agree with you, it makes little sense for the ship to be carrying so much extra fuel. To be fair though, I've never really seen fuel reserves have more than a very minor impact on the battle. A single raging fire on a 5+ when crit? This happens three times if the critical rating is reached every time. The chances of that happening once/twice/three times is 15%/22%11%, respectively, and that is not even including the chance at a repair before anything untoward happens. As a weakness, it looks more scary than it actually is.

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Well, it does make a difference when playing against pesky corvettes and boarding heavy fleets. Why include a stoic crew in the points when burning them with this MAR at the same time? At least it is time wasted for rolling useless dice. When they do make a difference, this MAR costs You an expensive ship.

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I haven't followed the French fluff that much, is a heat lance a microwave weapon?  What about the heat flash broadsides?  I thought it was more of a flamethrower type from the description on the release statement.

Also in this case, and I think some others, I think they use the fuel reserves in a general term rather than a specific type of fuel.  With the heat lance it might be some other form of fuel than what it would take to power a ship.

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22 hours ago, Erloas said:

I haven't followed the French fluff that much, is a heat lance a microwave weapon?  What about the heat flash broadsides?  I thought it was more of a flamethrower type from the description on the release statement.

Also in this case, and I think some others, I think they use the fuel reserves in a general term rather than a specific type of fuel.  With the heat lance it might be some other form of fuel than what it would take to power a ship.

The Heat Lance has been described as a version of the Covenant Energy Weapons - although those have never been fully described, they're either Lasers or Plasma Weapons of some kind.

As for power sources, well, best we can tell most ships run on Sturginium Reactors of some kind, which is about the equivalent of a Nuclear Reactor. The Russians are a bit different, though, with some of their ships using Stuginium-laced coal in standard boilers.

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On 14/02/2017 at 5:45 PM, Amiral X said:

Gascony should be called Gascogne !!!!  Why translating this area name into english while all other french names remain in french ?

 

Completely agree there, I don't think any of the other ship names (of any faction) are translated.

While we're talking about fluff, having the ship be created by the "royale scientist league", in a post-revolutionary France where the restoration didn't happen seems a bit weird.:huh:

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Dare you insinuate that the French wouldn't maintain a proper pomp and degree of titled arrogance to a guild made up of aged erudite? Regardless of the simple political machinations of their empire?!

And good catch on the name. I could not agree with all of you more. Consider it to be one of prompt change when I go through the revisions!

Thanks for all that!;)

-Mike

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Well, from 1789 onwards, having royal in your title wasn't very good for your health, which is why the real life "académie royale des sciences" cut it out of its title back then.

Of course, such a guild would probably stick a "nationale" (or even better, "supérieure") in there instead to maintain the necessary level of pompousness :D

Really, the more I think about it, the more I feel like something along the lines of the "ligue scientifique nationale supérieure de France" would fit pretty well for them:D

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Just now, Spartan Mike said:

@Erwl That is just the sort of enthusiasm that I love to see brought out in this game and community! If only my grasp on French Culture / Language was as solid, but alas being a Southern Californian I am typically relegated to "bro" and "dude" culture more often than most!

;)

-Mike

Well, everyone contributes with what they know best, of course^^

I really love DWars' fluff, really great stuff there, and it has kept me thinking for a while;)

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So after running a few more battles over the past couple of weeks to try our new battleship I have not had the success I was expecting with these.

The Gascony Mk1 seems to hold its own but you need to make sure to not try and hunt any type of larges with it especially with the torpedoes. The AD spread seems nice but there are plenty of countermeasures to this such as CC and shields. When targeting mediums squadrons I gave it a go with slightly better results. Linking the torpedo attacks against a single medium is fine but since we do not have any special MARS on our torpedoes (except when we choose the hunter option for submerged) the linked CC of medium squads seems to only let you plink damage on them. Only one match that I played had a squad of medium subs (Russians) which were surprisingly well defended with a good compliment of CC and tough DR/CR. The result of these attacks was 1 damage and 1 Critical hit which was enough to cripple 1 sub but they were able to get their revenge. The plus was sharp turn as I was able to maneuver for the fore torpedoe shots much better The Raised turret and broadsides are good together and can do the job of Aerial Hunter well. Its a good way to take out medium flyers at long range as well as damage Large flyers. The KoB Eagle was a bit troublesome to hit with shields and rugged in the Obscured RB but when closing into RB1 it became a big target (even with 3 damage). As much as this is a great for aerial model denial, France has never really had trouble with this (in my experience at least) and even if we need it i feel like its just another model to replace the Ecuyer which is sad to me. I would rather have the model be juggernaut at something other than that but that is just a preference really. When boarding came I had no problem wiping them away (I even used a Bayonne! weird with the extra points i had) Elite crews defended well.

With my experience with the Mk1 so far has been that we have another medium hunter model. It does okay in this role but its not a squad killer which is a little bit of a letdown. As mentioned before i with it had a bit of a different role personally or maybe just a different style (Option between 2 torpedo turrets or 2 High angle turrets). Maybe give the torpedoes a little something more? idk what but torpedoes seem to be lacking. I know its not a French theme with having some sort of powerful torpedo MAR or high AD spread on them but having it be one of the primary weapon systems for this ship its a bit blah.

Finally, the rendered look of the model to me has evolved from really liking it to it seeming to be unbalanced? course i can fix that with just purchasing another Heavy Raised turret :) Also the renders don't seem to do justice for the actual model so I will wait and see once I have one in hand. 

As always this is just my opinion from experience which is still limited as well as not trying other tactics to use them. 

Mk2 Review later

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It has been a while but I was able to get a few more games in with the new Battleship. 

Though I did game quite a bit with the Mk1 version (personal favorite) I will focus on the Mk2. Note: These were all games still in 2.0 so soon to be moot points.

The Mk2 can hit like a truck! if it survives. Definitely a glass cannon model, especially for a large. Defenses overall are good with 6 Redoubtable AA and a decent compliment of defensive AP which helps with fending off boarding since you will want to get close with this model. Yet even with the Cloud Gen and retardant armor the lower CR and Vulnerable make it easier to take out or cripple before it gets started. In total I had two games where it was critted in the first turn and either the weapons were half AD or was teleported off the map. In every game I did use it there was always a critical hit on it as well and the re-roll on the crit table hurts 90% of the time (from Hard Pounding to a Fusion Leak or even Raging fire to a Mag Explosion. Though this can be attributed to my bad luck, its consistent enough that it makes this ship less than desirable when compared to the Mk1 especially when it comes to the price tag for it. Experienced Engineers is nice but Id rather not have that, remove Vulnerable MAR, and increase its base price by 10 or 15pts. But when it can get into action and can shoot it can deal the damage. Heat Lances which are the bane of many an enemy and as always cause a lot of damage and critical hits. for about 3 games a used the spread out damage strategy and targeted multiple units with the array of heat lances available to cause as many critical actions as possible which worked well for 2 games by crippling squads from navlocks to hinder lining up shots to having crewed abandoning ship as 6 raging fire tokens enveloped a cruiser. I also had a few games where i would pool my dice altogether and increase my chances of dealing damage/crits which is made for taking out Battleships and Dreadnoughts. At this; like other Heat Lance Based units, it excels in. Games where is survives and can get within RB2 are when Larges should be in fear of this model. Even in RB3 it can set up for a broadside arc of fire it can deal damage with 12AD when undamaged/1HP lost of Heat lance fury! 

Speaking of fury and fire, the Fury Generator is neat to have especially when you are close. Only was able to use it once but I rolled a 6 and Put 3 raging fire tokens on a British Dominion Cruiser and drop one AP so its cool to have with as well as a Cloud Gen. Yet you will get burned playing with so much fire. The Fuel Reserves MAR is pesky when they crit but makes sense since you have Heat Lances everywhere! Should be made standard on all Heat Lance Ships IMO. its a small negative effect but when fighting fleets that like fire (CF and EotBS) and they can get a critical, it can add up. Also when AP starts burning away (literally!) it opens up the ship to boarding since you already want to get close with this model. Though i am not a fan of it, having a Bayonne or 2 escort the ship may be a good idea. I did not test this strategy. 

All in all, except for my usual gripe of any addition of the Vulnerable MAR to French models since it doesn't fit there theme (randomly added in second revision of 2.0 to a few models, it doesn't belong :P ) the ship is good. Good defense overall, decent against boarding, Great close range attack and good speed go hand in hand. When hit though, it wants to die quickly so hiding it in cover until the enemy get close works well. 

Its tough to compare with the Mk1 because they fulfill two different roles for the fleet but if I had my choice for tournament use i would use the Mk1 over the Mk2 (or just have both!) Mk1 is a bit tougher in a couple areas and can fulfill multiple roles well but when you need something to combat other Larges the Mk2 is your guy. Final note would be to avoid using either one of these models as your Commodore unless this is your strongest Large on the field. 

when 2.5 is released to the public I am sure there will be some changes made that will render these arguments useless but until then, keep fighting the good fight my fellow French Admirals!

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