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I was on the recieving end of a Magnate Mk1. It was fast, especially when paired with a Indian Raj Chanuara with the time flow generator, I think it was 13" move one turn. Piercing always good (or bad if its attacking ur ships). I lost a Kaiser Karl that game. I'm looking forward to trying mine when it arrives. Thamoz may be able to add more.

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Updated stats for the magnate et al. Mk2 has devastating n redoubtable n an extra dice in all rangebands and has lost 1inch movement n gained 10 points. Seems good, I wonder if devastating linking rules r changing in 2.5

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Not sure I agree with you there Presidente, though I would not be against the KoB having all primary weapons redoubtable again.

Mk2 Magnate now looks viable to me, good without being too good. It also is a relevant choice between mk1 magnate and mk2 magnate. Price difference between ruler and magnate mk 1 still doesn't quite seem right. 15 points for piercing, stoic crew and advance engines 2 still seems like a bargain, but I guess it will affect lists a little...maybe...

*doesn't mention the Monarch*

Overall, I am happy with the pair of magnates now, though their internal balance issues are not totally resolved.

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1 hour ago, Thamoz said:

Not sure I agree with you there Presidente, though I would not be against the KoB having all primary weapons redoubtable again.

Mk2 Magnate now looks viable to me, good without being too good. It also is a relevant choice between mk1 magnate and mk2 magnate. Price difference between ruler and magnate mk 1 still doesn't quite seem right. 15 points for piercing, stoic crew and advance engines 2 still seems like a bargain, but I guess it will affect lists a little...maybe...

*doesn't mention the Monarch*

Overall, I am happy with the pair of magnates now, though their internal balance issues are not totally resolved.

Although I will say the Ruler with the Guardian will still be enough to consider. Magbate for Speed and piercing, Ruler for defense...

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A single shield die is not worth it when considering a Guardian Gen.  Advanced Engines is still an odd ball on the MK I, Hit and Run would have fit better seeing as the Hood also has it.

The MK II is still at a lose of what it's purpose is.  It gained Devastating on one weapon, good.  However you lose this if you want to take advantage of an equally good Sustained (3) ability.  And this still only works against Fortifications which are 'sparse' in every tournament I have ever been to or seen force lists from.  Even in regular games fortifications are generally unheard of.  Throw in that the P/S Torpedoes are fixed channel unlike the MK I and the head scratching continues. 

These changes are simply not enough to warrant more time to testing it, I'll gladly stick with the Jhasa if I really need Devastating in my list.

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Jhasa certainly is good, but if you want a devastating long range shot without allies than the Magnate seems a fine choice to me. Fortifications are rare, true, but I don't see this as a reason for not having a bunker-busting type rule to crack them open on a ship that (according to the limited fluff) is designed to bombard installations. As far as I can see you only lose devastating against fortifications when you link in the turrets, which often will not be necessary.

p/s torps... well, that arc change back to fixed I had missed, but that isn't exactly that new to us.

I shall test it out at some point to see how it does, I can't imagine it would fit into most of my KoB lists which are a little more close-in focused (and its fire arc still makes it a very tricky ship to get best use of) but I don't think it is a bad ship as it stands.

As for guardian ruler... I really wish guardian gens were good, especially the KoB ones since they pioneered the tech, but a 1 dice shield is not really enough to depend on doing anything. Add to that the short range of the guardian on the Ruler... If all the KoB guardians were at least guardian 2 then that would be brilliant imo (and make some of the less brilliant units a reasonable choice).

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With nearly all of our mediums carrying their own shields, Guardian(1) is much less useful for us than some other fleets would find it.  Guardian(1) does not come into the discussion when I am making a choice between two ships.  I would however gladly pay ~20 points for a Guardian(2)

The needlessly give-and-take rules for the MK II is what gets me.  If the Bombard fires at a fortification it (and everything that links with it) gain Sustained Fire(3).  So you can fire the bombard at fortifications all day long and enjoy both MARs.  If you want a few extra dice you can ditch Devastating to link in both turrets and still keep Sustained.  And the attached Dominion is still hanging around wondering why it isn't allowed to join the fun.  Name a single other ship/weapon that has this many restrictions and issues.

The Magnate is also still a large.  This makes it possible for an opponent to begin blocking LOS to some targets with just cruisers.  Worse when you remember that the KoB does not have a single naval spotter, and the only Aerial unit are the expensive Hawks.  Guess I have an excuse to join the club and spam Recon SAS.  Yay activations.  Would Altered Silhouette (Massive) been out of the question?

 

Sorry MK II, even the Regent gets picked before you do.  It can't do your job, but your job doesn't really need done. 

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I just made up my mind on the new magnate as well.

Mk1 doesnt change a lot to its former version, so its ok,  far from brilliant, but okish... Shield 3 would have been an idea and fit better into a brawler theme. All other Battleships have better defenses then a magnate, so like all other large ships (yaya i know, Regent has cr10) its again a squishy paper ship. The argumentation for being able to take more damage and still return decent fire due to redoubtable doesnt count anymore, since the other comparable ships all have redoubtable on its weapons. So it only makes it to an ok status.

The MK2 changed a lot. The devastating on the battery is mostly interesting for area bombardment (about 7-8 hits on RB 3-4 ignoring defensive mars, putting one damage on a dread or maybe 2 crits on a clumbed up medium/small squad), in which turrets cant join anyway (Shoot em seperatly). It also offers you an interesting choice, once some damage is suffered, to give up devastating and regain some AD via the turrets. Redoubtable fits well into a brit army. Unless some new fortifications are realeased, Vault breaker is still a very useless rule, although its fluffy. To be honest im quite surprised by all these changes. Knowing SG usual mentality I expected them to be much less. Lets hope it is a positive sign for future balance issues. If it is enough, I would still like to see 1 more AD on the battery. Its very comparable to lets say a Aristotle, which has 15 AD across all RBs (not only RB 2-4, but slighty less AD on RB 2-3, but good synergies with target painters). However I never read "oh Aristotle is too good, I have a good ship". So I think  you can  savely say the MK2 is ok too. Nothing more, nothing less. The 10 Point increase is kinda useless to me. Should also be reconsidered unless the battery is buffed by one additional AD. 

Hope my ideas help you to get a better picture.

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Very constructive and engaging conversation on the MK2 guys. Love the chatter! I hope you get a chance to test the vessel in some games, as it really was a blast to play with in my testing!

It is so exciting to hear the dissecting of the update. Sorry for the clerical error on the broadsides! Just added another little nut to the work-bowl!

As with every stat sheet and ORBAT produced, the ink is always magical in nature when placed to paper. Living rules are exciting in that they can always be evaluated and modified as they age and become entrenched in additional releases. And considering the massive raft of new additions for DW that are steaming towards us all, I hope you all realize that even recently crafted ships leave no marks set into stone! It is a very exciting time for all the nations of Dwars, concentrated efforts are being made to review and address everything possible to get the game into an even better state!

Thanks for taking the time to share the thoughts everyone. Very much appreciated!

-Mike

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These changes are simply not enough to warrant more time to testing it, I'll gladly stick with the Jhasa if I really need Devastating in my list.

Since area bombardment bypasses almost every defensive system the coastal bombard battery is actually one of the most powerful long range ordance in the entire game. Having the ability to damage even the toughest ships in dystopian world (St Malo, Kaiser Karl etc ..) even from RB4 is something rather new to the KoB. And you only need one spotting marker to fire indirectly with this weapon. That's something even the weak KoB spotting capabilities can provide.
190 pts is for sure rather expansive for one single powerful weapon system and many rubbish ones. If, by chance, 2.5 brings linking rules on devastating ammo back to what it was in V1.1 this ship could be very powerful. All considered the MkII looks very KoBish to me : potentially powerful but very specialised and not very competitive but surely it is fun to play with :) .
That ability to win gunfights against bunker complexes also inspires me some scenarios :) 

The MkI version however seems a bit tasteless. I could choose it over a ruler if I got 15pts left when my list is finished, but the two ships are almost identical. I for one would have prefered something that showed the technological leap between old fashioned Ruler and brand new Magnate MkI. Maybe guardian (2 protective 2 8") generator, wider firearcs for the torpedoes, or internal target painter (torpedoes, 24") generator. 

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Wouldn't those changes just make the ruler even more redundant though? If you pushed the points cost up further to justify those upgrades then it would be in heavy battleship territory (not that anything else in the KoB orbat really challenges for that position...)

Flat out upgrading the Ruler only works when there can be sufficient points difference. Unless the Ruler's price can be brought down a bit, I don't think the Mk1agnate can be much more than it is now. Of course, the KoB could decide the Magnate is the future of battleships and thus retrofit Rulers to a different role... a support battleship where the the Mk1agnate is the standard battleship. Give it a DR/CR reduction of 1 (to represent superstructure being stripped out to make room for the support systems) and wack a Guardian 2 protective = 2 generator on it with a big range (12" maybe? Like the Eagle?)  and a combat coordinator of some sort... hunter submerged like the dominion perhaps.

It will be difficult to differentiate the two, since they are essentially identical in every respect. The only way I see to do it is either playing with the points or giving them very different roles via supporting systems and defenses.

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1 hour ago, Presidente said:

Area bombardment ignoring all defences is a pile of ridiculousness, having a template that has the same amount of dice on every model is bad enough, its one of things I hope gets looked into in 2.5:)

Death to all French Traitors!!! And Death to all OP defensive MARs :)

BTW another way of bringing the MK2 battery special rule into play could be to give sustained fire (1) vs all targets and (3) vs fortifications. This way I could get my 1 additional AD and have an actual use of the rule :)

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So I got my new Magnate today. I've not seen any photos of it "in the resin" as it were so here is a link to some. I'll hopefully get some better ones up with comparison sizes sometime.

https://level9red.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/dw-new-models-the-magnate-class-battleship/

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So I've had to face two mkII magnates for about 6 games in a row now and I really can't understand why you guys think it's underpowered. Its firepower is ludicrous compared to other ships, 12 devastating dice at rb4, you can't run from it, you can't protect units you want alive because if idf, it can ignore defensive tech and trivially remove cruiser squadrons. You can't shut its firepower down because it's redoubtable on its guns and it hides at the back of the board so you can't even get close and hurt it back. I find it to be a ridiculous NPE. 

 

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