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What now for Covenant?

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So as we've had the least active forum group of all the factions over the last few months, I have to ask, what has become of the Covenant of Antarctica?

Do we know it all?

Do we have everything we need?

Have we lost faith that we might get what we've been asking/hoping for?

Is no one still playing CoA?

What IS worth talking about regarding CoA?

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Beyond some internal balance issues (i.e. almost all our carriers & drones), I think the CoA is the closest faction to being 'complete' as it were. Why there's no discussion on how to actually play them... I'll put that down to neglect, and a general tendency of the forums not to do that sort of analysis that often.

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57 minutes ago, Sebenko said:

Beyond some internal balance issues (i.e. almost all our carriers & drones), I think the CoA is the closest faction to being 'complete' as it were. Why there's no discussion on how to actually play them... I'll put that down to neglect, and a general tendency of the forums not to do that sort of analysis that often.

That, plus getting us to agree on anything in the way of "what models are the best" is like trying to get PhD students to share credit.

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I love playing the Penguins, because I can build an army that plays exactly the way I want to play that day. so yes, I think we have all we need. I don't think you can ever "know it all" but the combos are common knowledge, so without new releases its bound to become stagnant.

I honestly don't know what to hope for, because i think we have all we need.....

I played CoA yesterday, and I had great fun. Fresnels are still OP as f**k...

Maybe talk about combos concerning air/fleet/land and not just one part in itself? that's all I can think of...

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Itill cant seem to get any sort of result above 750pts, which I know is a tiny game, but above that I get annihilated. 

Debated picking up some Zenos to try their thing, but really I feel completely underwhelmed by CoA. Obviously just not seeing their true effectiveness nor realising the nuances of CoA tactics.

The 'drone/carrier fail' just adds insult to injury as it feels like I have a 'large' portion of my fleet that's simply not worth ever using.

 

I'd love to see things thru your eyes folks.

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Mind sharing some lists?

The issue is that their internal balance is poor, so if you're not taking the good choices, you'll probably lose. The CoA has at least one 5-star option in every size category, but they have some real stinkers in many, too.

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After more conventional efforts, this is the only list I have left written down as a desperate attempt to get some decent dice pools, to actually get CRs on something. (1000pt)

Aristotle w Kepler (energy) +target painter

Cleomedes x3 primary guns

Hyperbius

Ptolemy x3

Plutarch x3

I know it's a bad list, but it's all I can quote. I could list my collection but that's a lot.

 

 

 

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Without seeing you play, I can only theorise, but I would put it down to unit selection- they don't all synergise effectively.

I've done quite well with similar lists. Perhaps it's unfocused? The Hyperbius and Ptolemys suggets an E-turret heavy list, but the only E-turret squadron is the Aristotle. I'd either lean more heavily on the E-turrets, replacing the Cleos with Fresnels, or go the other direction, removing the Hyperbius and Ptolemy for more Destroyers and either a Zeno squadron or one of the Zeno+Escort specialist squadrons.

You also have the Ptolemy squadron, but a significant portion of your force (Hyperbius, Plutarch and Cleos) has to move past the minelayers to be effective, meaning they may not be pulling their weight- one of the greatest advantages of the Ptolemy within the CoA ORBAT is that you can sit behind them as they lay mines, before the opposition is in optimum range, while getting maximum AD from your major ordnance.

It's also extremely medium heavy. Fair enough for the CoA, but I do try to include a second small squadron if I can, so I can use at least one DD squadron very aggressively.

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Like I said. I know that's a 'bad list', and I meant it. Played it twice, got lucky in 1st, got annihilated in 2nd.

I don't have options to do most of what u suggested. What I do have is below:

Larges: Diophantus, Aristotle, Pericles, Arronax

Mediums: 3 Cleomedes, 4 Fresnels, 2 Kepler, 3 Ptolemy, 2 Hyperbius, 3 Capek, Hippasus

Smalls: 10 Thales, 4 Diogenes, 3 Plutarchs

 

I don't have the firepower at range to do enough hurt and still be able to survive close up. Probably need new purchases and/or complete new strategies.

Drones n Thales have tended to get shot down or simply bounce off targets (even soft ones). My dice aren't that bad, so there must b more to it.

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I personally dislike the Thales- nothing rules wise, I just prefer the Plutach (Telling my opponent that every model in my list has shields is always a laugh, too). Drones do damage, but only if they get there- which can be an issue.

Maybe we'll get an update sometime that makes the Diophantus worth taking and the Arronax actually usable at sea.

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I love all our smalls. Plutarch have a great damage output if you can get them there, which you can thanks to teleporters.

Diogenes hit and run with their torpedoes usually means they survive forever doing reliable damage against other smalls and mediums.

And Thales are awesome suicide boarders.

When I read other faction orbats, I usually stumble upon some things that I would simply never take, when I read ours there just seems to be a spot for everything.

Even things like the much maligned Diophantus has a spot thanks to mines with gen, PA and torpedoes.

Only thing I miss is an in faction way of repairing. It just feels wrong to have dirty for hire mechanics crawl around on our sci-fi hulls.

there are only two things in total that I feel like they need a buff, and thats the Pericles and the Pytheus.

 

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Sorry St4inless, there's a bunch of things I'd never take for our faction. Granted Pericles and Pytheus are 2 of em.

I don't know how u get such survivability out of Diogenes simply thru hit n run. U must have some slow opponents and plenty of islands etc to hide behind.

My experiences with Plutarchs n teleporters have not been great, u need 3 gud rolls b4 u make ur AD rolls, and if they don't eliminate all threats then they're getting pounded from all sides at close range in their next few activations.

As mentioned earlier Thales rarely seem to generate their points back nor successfully board anything. So the enemy doesn't see them as a threat, rather just something to shoot at if they don't have dice/arc to hit anything more worthwhile.

The Diophantus may have lots of toys, but it's sooooo overcosted with high PV that it's always gonna come second to something else. It's a dread hull, but does have enough punch in any 1 area. Like throwing wet sponges at ur enemy. They're best off ignoring it, not wasting shots on a dread hull, then boarding an easy target (one that came to them due to torps n PA guiding its path).

The Arronax appears in 2 different boxed sets now, but still is pretty useless!

 

Theres definitely a few fixes or tweaks that Spartan could do to make our faction more playable. I simply can't get a balance with them.

It can't be just my meta as I'm in a small group of 1x CoA (me), 1x FSA, 2x Prussians, 1x RussianC, 1x RoF. None of whom can play too regularly, so skill levels aren't tournament standard, but none are stupid either.

Somewhere during the last couple Orbat changes, I went from winning 80% to losing 90%.

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What else do you never take? I'm honestly curious what you consider sub-par.

not really, its just that most stuff wont crit them in RB4, and they can easily sit there for 2-3 rounds going circles throwing 8 torpedoes at whatever's in range. If the opponent sends something their way to deal with them, that's all you can ask for, as forcing him to split forces is great.

plutarchs are great because of the hurt they can dish out at close ranges and thanks to being smalls, they are mobile enough to navigate on close quarters, so when you teleport behind enemy lines then bring the hurt with your broadsides and turrets you're usually in a position where mounting an effective counter attack without absolutely wrecking formation becomes a nightmare. Once again forcing your opponent to either split forces or ignore a threat.

successfully boarding is a question of what you expect. for me they are successful if they killed enough of the defenders that a medium ship can finish the job, and in that they have so far seldom failed me.

Protecting against boarding is as you say the biggest issue we have IMHO, so having a carrier that is able to provide CP for your fleet while limiting angles of approach with mines, while threatening lighter swarms of boarders with PA and at the same time contributes with some torpedo sniping, I just don't feel like its over costed.

Arronax in sea battles is not so good, agreed, but its a land unit, so why would we even grade a mole on its ability to swim? :)

I really don't want to sound dickish (I never played with the old orbat), but maybe you have EDS -> so maybe switch factions with one of your buddies for a while and then come back later with a fresh head?

 

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For 265 and SV(100) points, I expect better than an 8AD Torpedo attack and Drone Launcher (6). And with the Dio's loadout, the last place I want it is RB4. It's part of the CoA's assault outfit alongside the Zeno, but it's overcosted for that too. Also the Dreadnought designation is an issue- I don't think I've seen a tournament go "No Dreadnoughts, except the Diophantus because it's not really a DN, okay?"

As for the Arronax, it's multi-purpose and used to be a diving model. Damn right I'm going to grade it on it's ability to be useless at sea. Essentially, it used to be usable, it looks like it should be usable, but because it's built around diving/burrowing, it's useless without it.

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@St4inless please explain what is EDS?

As for what I'd never take -

2 controversial ones are the orbs. Mediums coming out pointing random directions are just asking to become lost points. It's alright breaking up their formation/advance, but if u r too weakened by ur endeavours to capitalise then then not much point.

I've used Hippasus to do the same w Plutarchs/Thales, but it's never paid off, and Hippasus seemed an easy target after putting itself in position to achieve a decent portal placing - shot down in 1 turn/neutralised for little resistance.

Galens, never seen anyone take em and they just don't seem worth it. .... maybe with a Prometheus? (I don't have one tho)

Have to agree with Sebenko on the Arronax. It's still sold in the Hunter Flotilla. So it darn well should function at sea.

A whole heap of our Flyers are just conflicted in purpose when we've been the faction of "this is my job, I do it really well, just don't ask me to do that other stuff".

The Capeks got worse in the last Orbat with only 1 RB4 weapon, the guns reduced to RB2 despite being Energy, yet they went up in points to a point where they're not worth taking anymore... unless you're against an almost entirely flying foe.

It feels like I need to tailor my fleet for my foe for EVERY game, rather than build a solid list and use tactics and being a good commodore to win games.

As for Diogenes surviving at RB4, a lot of factions just don't have RB4 or only small dicepools. If they want to hurt something they usually target my Diogenes or Thales and they're soon blown out of the water. U only need to lose 1 or 2 from a full squadron to make them almost impotent against all but the softest of smalls.

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I've managed to pull off the Hippasus+Plutarch combo a few times against RC and EotBS. It requires certain positioning to work, dropping the destroyers on a target of opportunity (e.g., a lone BB or cruiser squadron). The Hippasus spends most of the game wavelurking and generally soaks up a good degree of firepower- and once it's done the portal trick, it's less of a priority since it's served it's purpose.

Galens, I've only used as part of the Zeno+Escorts squadron, which I quite like, since it's 150 points for a not unreasonable threat. Makes a good distraction and can cause some serious damage if moved intelligently. Otherwise, barely ever used them.

Totally agree on the flyer issue, they're all carriers (which apart from the Kepler, means they're overcosted) or rubbish general purpose models such as the Icarus and Daedalus.

It used to be that the CoA was a solid core that traded brute strength for ease in other areas (E.g., weaker torps, but great range and wider angles, mostly turrets with 270 arcs, but low AD). Now it feels like that solid core is compromised because we pay a lot of points for them, and then even more points for specialists which we rely on. So we end up with a lot of points spent on stuff that's poor unless you've specifically tailored your list to your opponent- which has always felt rather unfair to me, and punishes opponents who don't have multiple nations or a full selection of models. Fine, I expect someone with only has one option in each size class to have issues, but surely they should be able to do okay with a core of mainly Cruisers, BB and Frigates since they're usually a nations' general purpose units.

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I usually put Zeno's on a flanking mission to get the best out of their weapon systems, especially their broadsides.

Same with Cleos' send them on the flank, and hit the enemy in the bum.

Flyers wise - I think all of the CoA's stink - so I swap them out for Eclipse Co and make use of their carriers and Phonecians

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Lists vs P.E is somewhere I tend to struggle with.

I have all naval units as options except pericles. 

 

I dendepending on size (1000pts standard.)

 

1x Aristotle w/kepler , 1x hipasus, 3x cleo's or fresnels, 3x Plutarch and thales all energy

 

Not sure where else to go with it. But any other combo I try isn't working either.

I managed to beat K.o.B (threw in a dred) up against 2 hoods and dreadnought

Hammered of yanks most times.

Been playing now just over a year.

Any hints

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I ran Aristotle (energy, no upgrades), 2 Fresnels, 3 Cleomedes (primaries), Hippasus, 3 Plutarchs, 5 Thales vs RC recently. 

The portalled Plutarchs actually worked. Getting a Crit each turn on his mediums kept him tangled up at the back of the board allowing my very average dice chance to pick apart his advancing fleet.

Granted his dice weren't great to him and he wasn't expecting the portals, so I expect he will be better prepared in future.

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Good to hear. One great thing about the Hippasus is that it does more than just portals, so you shouldn't feel obligated to use them, unlike with the TDO, which you would only take for the portals. If it looks like your opponent has the drop on the potential teleport, just re-task your teleport element as close support- and if you've distracted some cruisers or frigates trying to cover the back of his fleet in case of portals, that's a good amount of points he has that will be doing nothing for a chunk of the game.

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10 minutes ago, Hrafn said:

I've never used teleport yet would u advise trying it

It has its uses, but I wouldn't rely on it with small games.

There are some good tricks that you can pull with the portals, and ways to minimise retaliation (mainly for the TDO) such as placing 95% of the "home" portal on an island, and then mining the last 5% with the Zeno squadron, as you send them through.

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