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Wolfchild

1st go at 2500pts advice please

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So next week I face off against RoF in my 1st ever game over 1000pts - this time 2500pts.

I know he has the Dread and Liberty among other things, so that's potentially a LOT of armour and HP with his 'I ignore you're 1st 6s' all over the place. He also has a few flyers inc big a airship and likes to flank.

My options are as follows:

Large/Massive - Aristotle, Diophantus, Pericles, Arronax

Medium - 2 Kepler, 2 Hyperbius, Hippasus, 3 Cleomedes, 4 Fresnels, 3 Capek, 3 Ptolemy

Smalls - 10 Thales, 3 Plutarchs, 4 Diogenes

That lot comes to 2850, so I have 350 to trim off and then got to figure out what to do with the stuff I have left.

Initial thoughts are to ditch Arronax (because it's pointless in Naval) after that I'm not sure.

 

All advice greatly appreciated.

Edited by Wolfchild
Changed parameters of game advice needed

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Firstly I only ever play dreadbots if there is an even number on each side, otherwise it can be very one sided.

I have Covies and I run with the below as a spine for most fleets (for 2k)

Prometheus +2 Galen

Aristotle + Kepler

Hippasus

Cleomedes x3

Fresnel x 2 (keep at RB4)

Zeno x3

Callimachus Beta (medium teleport)

Diogenes x8 (2 lots of 4)

Nothing scares players more than 3 Zeno cruisers teleported next them!

Aerial units for the Covies are utterly terrible, down even bother - replace them with Eclipse company units. Elysium has carrier 6, great stats, heavy weapons, guardian gen - all for 160pts. Add 3 escorts interceptors for high AA defence

Phoenicians are also excellent, Hunter surface +1, 2 Shields, HP 5. Just 80 pts

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Honorary mention for the Hyperbius, which is actually a superb aerial unit, like most heavy bombers. I try to feature at least one in my lineups at all time.

 

Has anyone tried the arronax? I wonder how it performs, but I haven't played with one, ever.

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have played the arronax in a 2000 pts game, he ate a fully operational Poland-Littauish Pocket-ship, then got one rounded by a Russian dreadnought. moral of the story? hide him behind an island to create a 7" no go zone for your opponent.

Can't talk about Hyperbius, never fielded him, but it seems like he makes our Fresnels bonkers.

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20 minutes ago, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said:

It would be better to hide it inside an island. It is a tunneller, and a lot harder to shoot at underground.

Nothing I would love to do more, but standing with a slow speed marker on top of an island means he never makes it underground.

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21 minutes ago, St4inless said:

Nothing I would love to do more, but standing with a slow speed marker on top of an island means he never makes it underground.

Why would he need a slow speed marker? its minimum move is 0".

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3 hours ago, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said:

Once you're under the ground, you don't have to keep the low speed marker on you. You only need it to make the initial burrow move.

seems like I'm really bad at communicating. lets try again.

As strategic forces cannot include large models, and the Arronax is a large model you cannot advance deploy it. Therefore getting the entire base on a strategically important piece of island is very unlikely.

So starting the game burrowed is in most cases not possible.

Therefore you spent turn one moving your full speed forward getting on top of an island with you entire base; now you are at least a massive+1 size for targeting purposes, and because you want to burrow next turn you have a slow speed marker. 

A 5/8 with 6hp sitting in line of sight of everything being hit on +1 will NOT survive.

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So thanks for the erroneous posts so far, from @Richomack88 - I have the models listed above, they are my only options, so I need to make a list from them.

My target points is now 2500, just for the sake of using near everything.

The Arronax is still likely the 1st thing to go as it never reaches enemy lines in Naval without a few tricks in play that are unavailable to me.

 

Can anyone advise me on my actual problem?

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Okay, so without the rundown of every unit: if you have to trim off 350, my suggestion would be to dump

  • (130pts) the arronax (hard to get into position, as you said, and more of a gimmicky unit that requires your strategy to focus around it)
  • (195pts) the Ptolemys (require good use of terrain and the enemy can usually circumvent your mines. Stratospheric makes for a beautifully surviveable unit, but I don't think they'll really shine in such a big game, with the distances you'll fight at (I'm guessing you keep to standard rules, which would call for 10'x4' table)

That leaves you 25 points to remove, for which I'd select a diogenes frigate.

You could consider removing Capeks instead of the ptolemys if you really like surviveable mine layers (6x4 mines is nothing to sneeze at). That would allow you to field a full strength diogenes squadron. But without knowing the enemy lineup I'd guess long range anti air firepower is more valuable.

I wouldn't remove the Keplers as those give you SAS and that's really valuable for activations in larger battles, but I would suggest attaching one kepler to an aristotle, leaving the other one to do its own thing. Does your opponent allow proxying of units? Because I'd try and get a second aristotle in a 2500pts game, especially if your only dreadnought is a carrier dreadnought.

 

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13 minutes ago, Phant Mastik said:

Don't forget the High Payload MAR and try to link them.

Very true, the high payload linked mines go for a whopping 14 AD. Again though, mainly useful if you have avenues of access to blockade (which depends entirely on the terrain you get) or getting within 2" of the enemy -- until then they're harmless to the enemy.

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In a 2500 point match there is generally a greater quantity of shipping trying to maneuver around each other and the terrain. Therefore I think mine layers increase in value as the points for the game go up. More chance of blocking off paths and greater disruption to enemy movement.

Looking at your model lost I would recommend loosing the pericles and the arronax. Pericles because it is very very easy to kill and gives a shed load of victory points to the enemy (all whilst contributing very little). Arronax because... well, you know why. Finally, I would say loose the squadron of frigates and proxy 2 of them as galens (to attach to diophantus). I think that is about right points wise, but have not checked.

To my mind, what you have left relies rather heavily on energy turrets and doesn't have much in the way of close range boarding/brawling. My advice would be to use the capeks to pick off one or two corvettes from squadrons hidden behind islands. This does waste their anti air potential but fast enemy boarders are much more dangerous than aerial stuff that anything in the list can shoot at. Hyperbius can do this too. Keep the range, set traps with diophantus PA and mine layers etc, focus on threat mitigation and hope you have crippled the enemy offensive in turns 1 and 2.

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Thanks guys.

In the end played before I could read your later responses.

I massively over anticipated his flying capacity - they were skimmers except for 1 flanking heavy bomber.

He was activation poor as he ran a flanking action, thankfully my Ptolemies laid a minefield to hold that at bay and 2 big linked mines, which were really the only reliable way for me to hurt his dreads. Dropping 16dice worth of boom! just in front of them and then swooping up to Stratospheric to avoid most shots inside RB1.

He had Vauban skimmer dread on his R flank, Madame Liberty (fortification skimmer dreadbot) advanced in centre and Cherbourg dread on his left. They blocked LOS to a lot of other stuff w big islands present and meant about 75% of that lovely RB4 firepower was wasted barely scratching paint.

Luckily between mines and Plutarchs I took Vauban down to 1HP by end of turn 2 and removed almost all of his mediums n smalls. His Assault carrier also dropped to 1 HP when I unloaded my remaining Fresnels thru a gap between Madame and Cher, but it was too little too late as Madame had just lanced / rocketed my Commodore to scrap in the Kepler he'd had to hide in after Aristotle fell in a single turn from full to zero HP (not even a mag xp!)

My Diophantus dread did nothing other than soak fire (with the help of a TAC).

As usual 'Squadron of the Fleet' award went to my Cleomedes, taking half HP off his assault carrier, and destroying a squadron of medium gunships n another of rocket smalls while taking side fire 3 massive and both the mediums and smalls mentioned above.

It was a very crowded 6x4 as that's all we had available. It's possible my RB4 advantage may have been diminished significantly by the smaller than recommended board, and also that the threat of his flanking force would have been greatly increased by the same.

Thank you again for your advice.

I still need to find a way to dent the Cherbourg / Madame Liberty as they're both nails. I could try the mines, but now he knows what to expect, he'll make a point to eliminate the Ptolemies asap. That's what I experienced vs Russians and FSA. They're better employed as flank blockers.

Even with squadron AD of 16, 18 and 20 with a target painter, the 'lose 2AD' and 'your 1st 2 sixes are heavy, not exploding', means I'm still very lucky to get a crit. All the while they're getting closer and getting bigger dice pools.

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