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Ian

First battle with new relthoza rules

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The pod is still 4-4-4 right? thats still 12 hits you've got to make so that take what about 16AD? thats not ultra fragile and not super armoured either.

Sure if you drop infront of a group of Bor'ka's they will shred the pod, but then i wonder why you would do that.

 

I still think Relthoza are fine with the current rules.

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I hear people talking happily about how they can beat the Relthoza now. Do any Relthoza players want to chime in and talk about their victories?

The problem they have now is looking similar to the Russians in DW. It's a range band game and they have **** for range. They eat fire before they can be effective, and in the case of the Relthoza, they have less units per squad. It is far easier to neuter a squad and move on to something else against them than anyone else. Killing half a squad  by knocking out one model takes the starch out of them as a viable and threatening unit.

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In the half dozen or so full test games I played with the new rules I won 2/3 of them, so it isn't like they're bad or anything.  What they are (IMO) is one dimensional and inflexible.  Your strategy is solely bid points to try to get the first recon move, cover hop forwards, and try to close ASAP with as little damage taken as possible.  I actually started using the specialist target-designator guys (don't have access to the force sheet right now and I'm terrible with names) to lead squads of Salamas as a couple of points of ablative wounds. Depending on board layout and opponent (and if you got the first recon move or not), you can pretty much lose a game before it starts.  You need enough cover to have some possibility of advance, but then your opponent carpets it with artillery markers.  You are fast and have recon, but there's zero reliability in getting to use it.   One of my main opponents plays Sorys, and that matchup is just no damn fun at all, and I mean that for both parties.  He's playing a super lr-force, and my sole goal is to deny all shots.  It just isn't interesting to play.

With the new rulebook, proper usage of the Leviathan and Command Spire, along with using all possible cover, are the keys to winning.  I don't know that you can make a consistent force at all that isn't based around those two helixes.  Heavy Support is more points for less effect than Core, and is a total write-off.  Don't take HS, don't take ground attack, (probably) don't take interceptors.  Bring a full core (minus all but one infantry squad for objectives), bring a Leviathan, bring the Command Spire, Recon is also good. Take doubles of any of these before taking anything else.  Put least-useful units in the front (read target designator guys) to soak shots for actual worthwhile units.  Hope to win the initial recon move, hop cover, try to time turn to unmask Leviathan, smash in with Command Spire, and hit range with approaching Salamas all at more-or-less the same time.  That's about all you can do unless you're up against Terrans (who are still screwed because their range isn't much better than yours and their units are worse).

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17 hours ago, Paladin21 said:

(...)What they are is one dimensional and inflexible.  (...)

This is exactly what our group found: they can and do still win; but there is only one way to do it. 

Hopefully this will be addressed in the next update.

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On 2. 11. 2016 at 10:26 AM, Zeph said:

This is exactly what our group found: they can and do still win; but there is only one way to do it. 

Hopefully this will be addressed in the next update.

What would you suggest as update to make them more flexible, balanced byt not over-powered? I am thinking alongside these lines:

increase DR and giving cloak to  Spires (4+4+6, 5+5+7)

Increase Nexus designator range for support walker to 30"

Increase heavy helix heavy walker long range to at least 24.

 

What about other helixes?

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2 hours ago, Pepsin said:

What would you suggest as update to make them more flexible, balanced byt not over-powered? I am thinking alongside these lines:

increase DR and giving cloak to  Spires (4+4+6, 5+5+7)

Increase Nexus designator range for support walker to 30"

Increase heavy helix heavy walker long range to at least 24.

 

What about other helixes?

1. I disagree. I guess it's the fact that the Kuraks (Sorylians aside) have some awful AD pools at LR and trying to do any damage to high DR cloaked units is nigh on impossible.

2. I disagree again: I don't know why Dindrenzi have assault on their pods but spires arn't a major target for most players I've seen and if they are it is to your benifit.

3. Agree. it is superfluous at the moment.

Maybe all ranges do need upping a touch, we don't want to be "forced" in to buying Predator after all. either that or drop the price for recon and have it as an auto include.

 

 

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I picked up Relthoza just before the nerf and only played 1-2 games with a core helix and the heavy helix and I do agree that they were very much over powered and did need a nerf.  i have now played several games (multiplayer) after the nerf and yes I agree with some that nerf may have been a bit much in some areas and that I feel that Aquans really need one too as everytime i play vs them they feel broken, But on the whole I like the way they now play the reduced ranges make you move forward and close in (in the fluff the description of the relthoza are spiders and spiders can move fast).  If I didn't like the force I wouldn't have just bought the recon & ground attack helixes.

My unit that seems to play best is my Talamis which in my last game at long range got enough hits on the terran Tyr with shield tank support to kill it and put the shield tank of forlorn hope.

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