Most desired fixes for EoBS

[Grand-Stone]

What is your most desired fixes for the EoBS?

 

1. The sonic generator.

As of now, if you can avoid the sonic generator, do so. I might be tempted to say that all offensive generators are underpowered, but I may be wrong. But the sonic generator is. It has incredible short range, activates before movement. And for the sonic generator, it's effect is large, but you get to use it very seldom, and the probability of pulling it off is very low. 

 

2. Commandore ability

I must admit that I have never played with cards, but reading that card-play doesn't add much to the game as written, I'm not tempted to start either. Maybe our commandore ability might be fixed once card-play is fixed also.

 

 

 

 

[Lifegiver]

This topic has been discussed many times before. Units that need improvements are:

Ika: too expensive and slow for low damage in late game

Kiyohime: too vulnerable for SV50 when compared to Tenkei that is the same price, see http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/18795-fleet-carrier/

Nakatsu: see http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/17641-whats-your-ratio/&page=1

Mizuchi: too slow

Arashi: needs 90° rockets instead of FC

Raijin: too vulnerable, because it cannot use the node launcher when obscured

[Lord Nobody]

Let's not forget 2 or 3 fixed channel weapons on a single ship. One ship can get two fixed channel attacks if it is by itself.

I have never been able to get 3 fixed channel weapons to fire, even on one ship ! Your results may vary.

[Grand-Stone]

Fixed channels:

Interesting topic.

I find the straight forward fixed channels to be simple. Fixed channels on frigates isn't to hard either. But on the big cruisers, it's a pain in the neck. I find it more useful to ignore that broadsided with fixed channels unless it is really close by. And, I have stoped trying to use linked fire with them. But they are good versus small, and a single ship which can fire forward, side and side and at something else with rockets is kind of fun. I kind of like fixed channels, cuz it means that when determening the balancing cost that weapon system add a little to it's weight. Thus, it's not expcted to use all weapons, but if you do, you get a bonus for nice play.

 

However, for the big battleships, and carriers etc, the fixed channels broadsides are very difficult to use. So difficult that you might as well ignore it. 

[Lifegiver]

Well, there must be a reasonable ratio of how hard FC are to use against how powerful they are. Uwatsu has a good ratio, being fast and powerful. Nakatsu has a poor ratio, because it still somewhat lacks speed to make them count, and its other weapons are very lackluster compared to its points cost. On the big ships the FC weapons are just a bonus, because their main weapons are powerful turrets. I like the idea to make the FC ordnance weapons of the big ships much more short ranged but much much more powerful to make You consider manoevring to make them count.

[Lord Nobody]

I guess if I wanted to have easy ships to play I would use FSA's 270 degree turrets, 360 degree rockets and broadsides.

[Lord Nobody]

OK so I am a little disturbed about multiple fixed channels on our ships. I suggest the following...

Because our ships have the sharp turn mar we should get a 90 degree arc or hit and run mar for our forward firing torpedoes.

The logic is you need to lead targets with torpedoes ( less so with fast torpedoes ) so the sharp turn allows you to fire at targets then snap back to your original heading.

Would this make our ships too powerful? Does it make sense?

[Grand-Stone]

I'm not entirely sure what hit and run exactly do (don't have book in front of me).

But if you could move, fire your torpedoes, then move, and then fire the other weapons, that would at least be mighty fun, and the probability to get to use all weapon system increases. Could almost be better with the broadsides.

[varnos]

54 minutes ago, Grand-Stone said:

I'm not entirely sure what hit and run exactly do (don't have book in front of me).

But if you could move, fire your torpedoes, then move, and then fire the other weapons, that would at least be mighty fun, and the probability to get to use all weapon system increases. Could almost be better with the broadsides.

Move up to half your move value, do the firing phase, then finish your movement.

[Nazduruk_Bugzappa]

On 18/08/2016 at 10:04 AM, Lord Nobody said:

OK so I am a little disturbed about multiple fixed channels on our ships. I suggest the following...

Because our ships have the sharp turn mar we should get a 90 degree arc or hit and run mar for our forward firing torpedoes.

The logic is you need to lead targets with torpedoes ( less so with fast torpedoes ) so the sharp turn allows you to fire at targets then snap back to your original heading.

Would this make our ships too powerful? Does it make sense?

When a model uses Hit&Run, it moves up to half its speed, fires all of its available weapons, and then may complete its movement.

[Lord Nobody]

Ok my bad. Just fire it's torpedoes is what I meant.

[Grand-Stone]

12 hours ago, Lord Nobody said:

Ok my bad. Just fire it's torpedoes is what I meant.

That doesn't stop us from suggestion a hit & run ++ mar which allows that

 

Maybe this is of topic, but how could hit & run (as written) be exploited? The terror ship have hit & run. Has anybody exploited it?

 

[Lord Nobody]

" The terror ship have hit & run. Has anybody exploited it? "

It does help with it's fixed channel forward Heavy flamethrower, yet the Terror ship is one of the few to have broadsides arcs for it's guns.

[Grand-Stone]

I guess hit & run may make it slightly more difficult to retaliate if the ship ends it's movement behind the target. The damage from a heavy flamethrower can be preaty nasty if lucky.

 

The new blog from Sparta hints on new models for the core nations. Wonder what's planned for EOBS.

[Fire@Will]

On 06/07/2016 at 6:33 PM, Lifegiver said:

Arashi: needs 90° rockets instead of FC

No! Don't change the Arashi, narrow fronted fixed channels, on Sharp Turning boats, are the ultimate sniper in this game!

[Lord Nobody]

4 hours ago, Fire@Will said:

No! Don't change the Arashi, narrow fronted fixed channels, on Sharp Turning boats, are the ultimate sniper in this game!

Not if you are both closing. Only way for this ship to be used is attacking from the rear or sides. ( yes you do get one shot on a closing course )

[Fire@Will]

8 hours ago, Lord Nobody said:

Not if you are both closing. Only way for this ship to be used is attacking from the rear or sides. ( yes you do get one shot on a closing course )

Sorry, can you explain how this is a question of firing arc, and not range bands? I usually set my Arashi on a flank, diagonally opposite the big target. Blocking the centre and one end point on the hull is much easier than blocking the entire perimeter of a ship. 

[Grand-Stone]

Actually, when re-reading this topic...

I'm in favor of keeping fixed channels, but improving their firepower, especially if it is difficult to pull off. Price could be adjusted if neccessary. For our large ships, broadside is better ignored, and the bonus firepower you get if you do manage to pull of a fixed channel attack with it is to low.  If you make the bonus greater, it would be worth trying to pull it off.  Playing a difficult weapon system should come with some rewards when you manage to use it correctly.

As of now, for our large, it's best to ignore the broadsides all together.  For our mediums, I would say it's almost the same, but they are slightly easier to pull off. It's fun placing a Naktsu innbetween two smalls and fire at them both at point blank range.  Imagine a Naktsu with  10/6/4 fixed channels broadsides.   Or a Kiyohime with 14/10/8/5 firepower with fixed channels.  Now those fixed channels broadside will not be a joke anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fire@Will]

Fixed channels with high firepower are dangerously close to unbalanced. You only need to clip the edge of a model to roll 1/2 AD. In your example, the Kiyohime would roll 7 dice at RB1, if just a millimeter of the fixed channel clips a model.

[Grand-Stone]

You really think so?

That a 7 dice RB1 attack is overpowered? A single tanuki have a 9 dice secondery turret at RB1...

 

 

[Fire@Will]

9 minutes ago, Grand-Stone said:

You really think so?

That a 7 dice RB1 attack is overpowered? A single tanuki have a 9 dice secondery turret at RB1...

 

 

For the example of a millimeter within the fixed channel. Not in general.

[Grand-Stone]

1 minute ago, Fire@Will said:

For the example of a millimeter within the fixed channel. Not in general.

So, it's a 7 dice attack... at RB1

[Thamoz]

I think the principle is the bit Will is getting at. Being able to target a ship you have 1mm in arc for. 7 certainly may not be much but no other type of arc could target it at all in that situation.

[Fire@Will]

8 minutes ago, Thamoz said:

I think the principle is the bit Will is getting at. Being able to target a ship you have 1mm in arc for. 7 certainly may not be much but no other type of arc could target it at all in that situation.

Precisely this! 

[Grand-Stone]

 

12 minutes ago, Thamoz said:

I think the principle is the bit Will is getting at. Being able to target a ship you have 1mm in arc for. 7 certainly may not be much but no other type of arc could target it at all in that situation.

 

2 minutes ago, Fire@Will said:

Precisely this! 

 

Maybe I might agree with you, in that principle, but saying it's overpowered is to strong in my view. But the very very low firepower of the attack, makes it unproblematic (in my view) For most of the part, the broadside of our large units isn't something worth using. Since it is difficult to pull off atleast for RB3 and 4, and have low firepower. Making it somewhat useful would be more fun. Atleast in my view.

The problem isn't the firepower, but the Line of sight rules.

 

Now, our Large is not underpowered in general, so if improving something, you may need to tweak the cost to keep the balance.