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DW for rest of 2016

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OK, but I don't think anyone is playing 1.1 anymore - so I'm nother sure how referencing things in 1.1 has much relevance to 2.0?

I'm sure we will see the same things (giant stat swings) when 3.0 is eventually let loose.

I am a CoA player and I know what you're talking about, but instead of using redundant units I swapped themy out. Obviously it's not good you and I have models gathering dust but I'm 99.9% sure that will be addressed in a time frame suitable for an SME. 

Do remember HGC is taking up the most time, but other things are being tested...

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1.1 and 2.0 and not massively different. A Euclid with 1.1 stats would still be be horrendously broken in 2.0. It's to illustrate that the model has the potential to be overpowered, even without a massive direct weapon loadout.

We're obviously complaining because it feels like Spartan is letting areas of the game that have issues languish while they pour attention on their new cash cow.

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Well to be fair, if I was at Spartan (and I think they should hire me as I'm brilliant and my wife bakes all the time) then I too would be focusing on Halo also.

Whether it's viewed as a cash cow or otherwise is pretty much irrelevant to a business (of which Spartan is first and foremost) as I'm sure the deal with 343 requires a higher level of commitment than that of DW.

DW hasn't been forgotten about, it's got plenty of models plenty of fleets and a decently active community to carry it on whilst Spartan look at other things.

We could debate the transition between 1.1 to 2.0 but it's a moot point as nothing can be done. I appreciate that you have models not doing a lot (so do others) but if they retested and reissued some stats you would find your playing style and line up potentially change - thus putting a different roster of ships to the side.

Which ever way the cheese is cut some models will miss out. Whether it's through investment in new models or rebalancing work.

I don't think you can put Spartan in a position where all models are relevant ?

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Yes, I do think that all models can be relevant. Hell, I think they must be- If a model isn't relevant, why the hell was it designed, produced, given stats and released? Why does it exist?

I also see no evidence of a 'decently active community'. This is the busiest the forum has been for months. I don't know anyone who plays near me, and before I moved I knew only one other regular player.

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I can utilise most units if i change the deployment rules.

My group plays a patrol battle scenario with one large (no more than 200 points) at least one medium and one small, no flyers or carriers - so it encourages you to utilise more units.

Recently I had a large air battle. So I personally think some players unwittingly restrict their lineups due to the deployment structure they impose and never diversify from.

Well it does sound like whatever I suggest isn't good enough, so please by all means let us know how to fix DW in detail without omitting any unit.

I built my community up from 2 to 7 (few are semi reg) with the help of another reg player (Portcullis) but you do get out what you put in I guess.

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Euclid stats? Done (though this is a little outdated, it's the only discussion that's viewable on the forum).

Discussing what models should be changed? Done

And as a bonus, you want me to theorise why a particular unit is good? Done.

I might sound overconfident about the CoA changes and how they could be done yesterday, but there's damn good reason. I'd consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the CoA and the flaws in their ORBAT, and those flaws are something that I and the other forum-goers have been discussing for a long while.

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OK, what happens if the playtest pool disagree?

If majority can't agree to the updates then it can't press forward.

Plus, and the big one, have you tested the CoA repeatedly against every available nation?

If so then by all means, if you haven't already, contact the team and propose to become a beta tester :)

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They aren't all playing Halo...

Just looking at the links - the first couple of ships you mentioned have the first sentence (along the lines of) "I haven't used it much" 

I agree with some of the points however, especially the Eculid Epicurus and all their air units.

I would expect a rule update sooner rather than later...(not counting the tosh that was fleet battles)

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I would really like a rules update as well. Although I think most of the 2.0 ruleset is fine. Boarding needs some simplification in my opinion but otherwise its fine.

What we neef the most is sustained support from Spartan to show that the game is alive and kicking!

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On 30/08/2016 at 6:37 PM, richomack88 said:

Became a Vanguard bud - link is on the main Spartan page.

I tried last year, never heard anything back. I'll try again.

4 hours ago, Spartan Beth said:

@Drachinifel I'm really sorry to hear that you didn't receive a response from us regarding sponsorship for your event. I handle all our marketing and promotional requests and aim to respond to every one, whether it's a negative or positive answer. I am sorry that we missed yours. Can you confirm for me whether you emailed myself or another email address? If you could PM me some details, I will look into this for you and find out what happened.

I tried the phone this year. Tried e-mails the first couple of years.

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2 hours ago, Sebenko said:

Euclid stats? Done (though this is a little outdated, it's the only discussion that's viewable on the forum).

Discussing what models should be changed? Done

And as a bonus, you want me to theorise why a particular unit is good? Done.

I might sound overconfident about the CoA changes and how they could be done yesterday, but there's damn good reason. I'd consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the CoA and the flaws in their ORBAT, and those flaws are something that I and the other forum-goers have been discussing for a long while.

If they make the changes you ask for, would not the CoA be the next FSA?

You are right about changes to some models but if this ( SG DW's ) is to be fun and balanced for all nations we need a large pool of play testers.

One point I wish to bring up is allies. No major nation in the game should be required to use a allied ship because theirs can't cut it.

A Lot of us still use nation pure ships for our fleet.

 

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4 hours ago, richomack88 said:

OK, what happens if the playtest pool disagree?

If majority can't agree to the updates then it can't press forward.

Plus, and the big one, have you tested the CoA repeatedly against every available nation?

If so then by all means, if you haven't already, contact the team and propose to become a beta tester :)

Frankly from what we have seen make it to the table some of the playtesters need shot, there are huge imbalances in the game between fleets that just make certain units unviable....Orbat changes bring wierd changes that dont make sense half the time or just break more than they fix.

Tried going down the play testing route 6 months ago.....still waiting for the call....

 

If by majority you.mean "Neil" then no nothing will change.

Ive heard about how the FSA playtesting is done.....frankly it chills me to the core. Sounds more like a kangaroo court than anything with structure.

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6 hours ago, richomack88 said:

 

I don't think you can put Spartan in a position where all models are relevant ?

I think that should be the ultimate aim for any game....however its the pinnacle which is hard to ever achieve, other games dont manage it, but what i would say is the orbats have far far too.many "deadwood" units which offer very little or are sub optimal

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4 hours ago, Sebenko said:

Better be sooner, Spartan's astounding ADHD is killing interest in their games for me and, as far as I can tell, everyone else. Try and start a discussion anywhere about any Spartan game and the respons will be something like "Oh, that company that can't focus on anything for more than five minutes? No thanks."

Im 100% in agreement and i think Presedente will be too

Our group of 6 wont play DW outside of the Uk league in Teeside every 2 or 3 months, because its just not fun anymore.....same stale game with the same broken units, my French were virtually undefeated in tournaments, presedentes french are about the same....yawn.

In the last year we have seen in the UK two venues which Ran DW tournaments effectively close, one of which the last event they ran everyone apart from the 4 of us who drove down failed to turn up.

I hope spartan gets a hell of a payoff from Halo...i mean it, because...ok i dont have figures, but going off the decline on the forum and lack of anything around the country....they have systematically destroyed the support of a good chunk of core gamers across DW and FSA.....you know...the ones who recommend the games to others.

Halo might look like a nice shiny which will get X box gamers into tabletop (which i believe to be utter bollocks as most xbox gamers are lazy like me) but its so limited as a game....two factions....yeah if thats not repetative after two games then what is.

Im not saying its a bad game, its not, just ive seen companies go after the short term sales for an IP which is in the mainstream, then watch it fail after the hype dies down *cough* Gw LOTR 

Problem is.....Halo had its day......10 years ago.......scary!

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Just throwing this out there, as someone who's moved on to other games and companies himself, but who pops in to see where DW is going:

 

Why not create an unnofficial, player-developed 2.5 or 3.0 (or whatever) Edition of DW. I'd love to do such a project myself, but I'm just one guy with health issues, and very unlikely to be able to playtest (or get balance right). Here though? There are obviously people here with the passion and the experience necessary to do it; and at the very least it would give the forums something to talk about. I think the 9th Age has demonstrated what can be done when gamers put their minds to things. Maybe such an effort would give DW a shot in the arm? It would help SG, who seem otherwise distracted or, more charitably, under-manned and under pressure at this time.

Food for thought.

In the meantime, I'm going all-in with another space-based naval game that is due to drop in the next month or so, and have said so in the Spartan survey. Would love to come back to DW though, if the overall quality and support was there for it.The quantity-over-quality scattergun approach to SG games design and support is unfortunately beginning to show with more competition on the horizon. God help us all if GW ever decide to re-release BFG...

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OK aside from lining the playtesters up and shooting them, which in my view is perfectly fine considering the state of the FSA, I don't think mass corporal punishment will resolve the issue.

Wouldn't it be clever if Spartan sent a survey round, focusing on one nation at a time, with all the units listed and you get to select what stats the units have - with the final stats decided by using the average score - obviously it's not perfect but it would give a large amount of feedback from experienced players as to where the ships should lay in the grand scheme of things.

However, all nations need a standardisation in my view - with a wider range of commodore and singular abilities of give them their unique behaviour. Rather than more of the same models with wildly different stats.

Why not have "fleet points" which you can spend on customising your ships (to a limited degree) - give the Honshu 2 inches more movement at a cost of "x" amount of points? Why not. Bolt a guardian gen on a Hachiman ? Why not.

That way YOU decide if the ship is needed, can be improved and plays well with extra bolt ons

Also, for example - EOTBS (and others) they need a fleet carrier (still not sure why they don't have one) all nations should have a dedicated mine layer. 

All nations should have repair vessels (without forking out for ally repair ships)

Are you seeing where I'm going on that?

Also, Ottoman, Chinese, Denmark, Indian Raj should be boosted to major national status and fleshed out with newer ships etc

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15 hours ago, richomack88 said:

OK aside from lining the playtesters up and shooting them, which in my view is perfectly fine considering the state of the FSA, I don't think mass corporal punishment will resolve the issue.

Wouldn't it be clever if Spartan sent a survey round, focusing on one nation at a time, with all the units listed and you get to select what stats the units have - with the final stats decided by using the average score - obviously it's not perfect but it would give a large amount of feedback from experienced players as to where the ships should lay in the grand scheme of things.

However, all nations need a standardisation in my view - with a wider range of commodore and singular abilities of give them their unique behaviour. Rather than more of the same models with wildly different stats.

Why not have "fleet points" which you can spend on customising your ships (to a limited degree) - give the Honshu 2 inches more movement at a cost of "x" amount of points? Why not. Bolt a guardian gen on a Hachiman ? Why not.

That way YOU decide if the ship is needed, can be improved and plays well with extra bolt ons

Also, for example - EOTBS (and others) they need a fleet carrier (still not sure why they don't have one) all nations should have a dedicated mine layer. 

All nations should have repair vessels (without forking out for ally repair ships)

Are you seeing where I'm going on that?

Also, Ottoman, Chinese, Denmark, Indian Raj should be boosted to major national status and fleshed out with newer ships etc

OK so I agree with everything above. You can send the survey questions to me.

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