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Non-Leviathan models initiating Leviathan CQB

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Hi guys, i'm new here, i apologize if my english isn't good enough, i'll try my best to explain myself.

I know there is another topic about leviathan CQB, but this is a small doubt and i don't want to disturb the other thread discussion. The thing is, can regular models (like tanks or any other with only one CQB profile) initiate a leviathan CQB action?

This situation took place during a match between Directorate and Relthoza, a squadron of trojan cyberwarfare tanks initiatied a CQB action against a Vaxis flying leviathan, this model has a poor leviathan CQB profile, and my opponent decided to put their tanks in base contact with the Vaxis to avoid the superior CQB stat (Vaxis has 12/4), this is legal? I mean, i rolled 4 dice against 10 dice, because this tanks only have one stat for CQB and always use this one, but i rolled 8 less dice.

What do you think guys?

Pd: i hope i've written this clearly, if not, tell me please.

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... my opponent decided to put their tanks in base contact with the Vaxis to avoid the superior CQB stat (Vaxis has 12/4), this is legal?...

 

In short No.

 

Leviathans can choose what CQB stat to use as per this post back in March 2015

http://community.spa...e-2#entry246629

 

 

Awsomeshotdude

 

"If a Leviathan is in base contact with an enemy model, MUST the Leviathan use it’s Leviathan CQB against that model, or can it choose to use its normal CQB against other models in the enemy Squadron?"

 

Derek;

 

"The Leviathan can choose which of its stats to use. The Leviathan CQB stat is a focused attack of sorts as it can only affect the model in base contact (an so can be more powerful as a result). The General CQB stat is more....well..... general in its nature and so can affect the entire target squadron."

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They should really FAQ that, or fix the living rulebook, because as it stands now, the book is very clear as to when they can and cannot use the normal CQB. You can't expect people to try to track down a forum post just go get the rules right.

 

I played a game last night where my opponent thought that Forlorn Hope saved the unit until the next round. The online rules clearly stated that it got removed, but his book didn't.

 

So if getting into BTB with a leviathan doesn't force CQB, then they need to fix the wording in the rulebook.

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They should really FAQ that, or fix the living rulebook, because as it stands now, the book is very clear as to when they can and cannot use the normal CQB. You can't expect people to try to track down a forum post just go get the rules right.

Yes it needs to be fixed, but lets not go overboard and say the "rulebook is very clear". My playgroup has been playing the way Derek ruled on it since we got our Leviathans. So we obviously didn't read the RB the same way as you.

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As a sidenote: the PDF is not so much a living Rulebook as it is just a digital copy of what a printed 1.5 Rulebook would be. Spartan doesn't have an enormous art and media department like certain other companies. In fact to my knowledge there are only about 3 staff members with PDF making experience. Hence why the orbats take so long.

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I believe this issue is still very unclear, even with the statement from Derek in the post above.

 

It is clear from Dereks statement that if there 'some' models (1 or more) from a single squadron in base to base and others which are not, the leviathan can choose which models it wants to engage with which CQB stat - either using leviathan CQB on those that are in base to base or using normal CQB on models which are not in base to base.

 

What Dereks statement does not clarify is - if all models in a squadron have moved into base to base with the leviathan - what are the leviathans options?

 

1.) Can it only use its leviathan CQB, as there are no targets (models) that are not in base to base?

 

2.) Can it choose to use its normal CQB? If so does this only come into effect when there is more than one model in base to base or can it be used if only one model is in base to base?

 

If the answer is no 2.) and it does come into effect when there is only one model in base to base (ie all the time) - then I can see little point in having two distinct CQB values, as basically you will always choose the higher value to attack with (granted some leviathan CQB attacks now have the pinpoint MAR which you may to choose, however these are generally attached the higher CQB values anyway?)

 

In addition another clarification is required - when a leviathan chooses (or is forced) to use its leviathan CQB on those model(s)? that are in base to base with it - can this attack only affect one model? or multiple models that are in base to base??

 

I believe we need some further clarity given that Dereks statement was put out  way before the assault helixes were released, which are, in my view, the primary squadrons this clarification is important for.

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leviathans can always choose to use their first CQB stat (regardless of what is or is not in B2B). they MAY use their second stat but if so it can only be used against a model in B2B.

 

Is this the way your meta plays, or has this been clarified in a FAQ, on the forum, etc.

 

Because if this rule has been clarified this way I cannot understand why the leviathans have been statted the way they have, as there are no circumstances (that I can think of) where you would choose the second stat over the first (in base to base or not). Even with the Nor'Ba'Ro at 12/12 it makes no difference, so why have two stats?

 

OK I know with the assault bots you have a higher second stat and this gives you more dice when in base to base, less dice when not, so yes I see the need for two stats there, and maybe the argument goes, as its a leviathan it needs a leviathan CQB stat, fair enough, but then why haven't the firepower leviathans been statted the same as the Nor'Ba'Ro, as in 15/15 for the Wraith, 12/12 for the Odin, etc. After all the precedence has been set with the Nor'Ba'Ro, so why not do the same for the others??

 

Also if this is the case why put the Nor'Ba'Ro at 12/12 and the rest at lesser second stat  -  unless the Nor'Ba'Ro is equally adept at normal CQB as it is at base to base (leviathan) CQB?

 

Also in the rulebook it clearly states that the first stat is a models CQB capabilty when it is NOT in base contact with the enemy (rulebook emphasis, not mine)

 

As I said in my earlier post, I can see the logic in being able to choose which CQB stat to use if you have some (1 or more) models from a unit that are in base to base and others that are not, fair enough.

 

However after re-reading the rulebook (for me) it is clear that if a leviathan is in base to base contact with a whole unit (be that one or more models) it must use its leviathan (second) CQB stat.

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Personally, CQB seems a little odd to me. In its description, this is basically small arms fire and typically to be used against infantry. And yet CQB is just as damaging to these huge armored vehicles as the main armaments. For V2, I'd really like to see something like the following:

CQB vs infantry or light models use the RED dice mechanic.

CQB vs armored use the BLUE dice mechanic.

CQB vs leviathan use the BLACK dice mechanic.

Leviathan CQB always use the RED dice mechanic vs all targets.

 

Now CQB fits with the description. Useful and deadly vs light armored targets. Vs heavier armored targets, not as effective. Plus, we now have a reason to have Leviathan CQB.

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