Mortar: (i) direct fire? (ii) firing at aerial model?

[tommyorc]

Hi guys, I represent a group of Hong Kong new Dystopian Wars Players, who have some disagreements on how Mortar is used.

 

I have searched the Forum and notice people have constantly said Mortar can fire directly, but personally I do not agree.  It also seem to me that Mortar can fire at aerial models indirectly, but not at range band 1.  Anyway, my personal understanding is as follows:

 

My View:

- Mortar is SOLELY to fire indirectly;

- Mortar is a Gunnery, thus CANNOT attack Aerial Model at Band 1

- Mortar however can attack Aerial Model at Band 2-4, no rule prevent that.

- Some Mortar can be treated as Bombard (Area Bombardment MAR, as in those in Russians)

- If treated as Bombard, can fire directly or indirectly

- If treated as Bombard, cannot attack Aerial Model

 

My Argument:

- Take for example the Russian's "Khatanga Heavy Battleship", the Heavy Mortar is "Primary Gunnery Ordnance (P)" and Light Mortar "Secondary Gunnery Ordnance (S)".  Thus it is "Gunnery".

 

- Mortar Weapons are generally short ranged weapons, designed solely to fire indirectly ... (page 67, with a "," added ...)  --- if adding the "," it seems quite explicit ...

 

- Bombard are weapons capable of firing both indirectly and directly (page 67) --- explicit , also make a good distinction between Bombard and Mortar

 

- Mortar cannot attack Aerial at range band 1, because although it says "Mortars may fire indirectly at all range bands" distinguishing it from other Gunnery which can only fire "indirectly at band 3,4", it did not say it can fire Aerial at range band 1 ... so in an other words, "all range bands" is intended to tackle the "indirect fire can (normally) only attack range band 3,4," rule instead of the "Gunnery cannot attack models with Gunnery in range band 1" rule (p.58). 

 

 

Relevant Rule Abstract:

 

- A Model on the Surface Height Level CANNOT Target a Model occupying the Aerial Height Band with a Gunnery Ordnance Attack in Range Band 1. (Declaring Attacks, p.58)

 

There are 6 firing options (page 63 - 65):

- Standard Fire

- Linked Fire

- Combined Fire

- Indirect Fire (IDF)

- Concentrated Bombing

- Area Bombardment

  - Area Bombardment is considered to be an Indiscriminate Attack, with a "To Hit" Number of 5 or (Red) 6, and may only ever Target the Surface Height.

 

Page 67 - OTHER WEAPONS:

Bombards are weapons capable of firing both indirectly and directly.  Bombards are governed by the following universal rules:

- Bombards are identified by having bombard in the title

- Bombards may be primary, secondary or tertiary weapons.

- Bombards may choose to fire indirectly at range bands 2, 3 and 4.

- When Firing Indirectly, Bombards may use any viable Firing Options and suffer a -1 "To Hit" number modifier.

 

Mortar Weapons are generally short ranged weapons designed solely to fire indirectly, and may range from those carried by infantry, all the way up to huge demolition mortars designed to smash apart the toughest fortifications and vessels

- Mortars are identified by having Mortar in the title.

- Mortars may fire Indirectly at all Range Bands, and have a -1 "To Hit" modifier when doing so.

 

 

Please enlighten me.

[Veldrain]

You have to remove anything that looks like fluff from the rules.

 

Mortars and Bombards are able to fire directly or use indirect fire if you have spotted targets.  They are able to target Aerial and Submerged targets assuming all other rules are met (such as RB 1).

[tommyorc]

Thanks for the quick response.

Agree that we need to remove the fluff. But the two statement does not look like fluff to me. It is quite explicit.

Ok even if they are fluff, from where can we inteprit that Mortar can fire directly?

The 2nd question though, any view on whether mortar can fire aerial? And aerial at Range Band 1?

[Amiral X]

They can't fire at aerial targets at RB1 except if they have the "high angle" MAR, which is the case for most of them...

[Soltan]

They can't fire at aerial targets at RB1 except if they have the "high angle" MAR, which is the case for most of them...

??? I seek in vain,  but I only see FSA with bombard and "high angle" MAR ( and the Ho-I EotBS)

[Merlin]

All weapons use the same set of shooting rules. But indirect fire is only for cases where you literally do not have Line of Sight between the weapon and the model you want to target.

So if your ship and your target were in open water, you use direct fire with all weapons.

If there was a mountain or another model between you and your target, you need to use indirect fire.

So Mortars and Bombards use the same shooting rules as other weapons, unless you need to shoot over something, then you apply the -1 to hit.

I do agree with you though. The rulebook is very unclear about this, but as most people on this forum know, Spartan just aren't great at writing the rules in a clear and unquestioning manner, and are extremely prone to add in a lot of nonsense that only helps to confuse.

[Amiral X]

You're right Soltan, I though the "high angle" MAR was more common among the mortar weapon... bad memory ! probably they used to be...

[tommyorc]

Thanks all masters

[tommyorc]

How about Link Fire for Mortar?? I think i have read in some previous post that people say it is not allowed. BUT if as the above argument goes, that Mortar is just another ordinary P or S gunnery with the 2 special rule bullets on p.67, then Gunnery should be allowed to Link Fire as normal...

Am I interpreting it correctly??

Thanks

[Nazduruk_Bugzappa]

How about Link Fire for Mortar?? I think i have read in some previous post that people say it is not allowed. BUT if as the above argument goes, that Mortar is just another ordinary P or S gunnery with the 2 special rule bullets on p.67, then Gunnery should be allowed to Link Fire as normal...

Am I interpreting it correctly??

Thanks

[tommyorc]

Thanks all, crystal clear now!