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knightperson

Javi and command element

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I'm not entirely sure what happens in the following situation. A squadron's command element is destroyed, but the squadron is within command range of a Javi spire. The normal rules say that the squadron takes a disorder test, needing two successes, without benefit of the command element. The Javi rule states that units within its command range are treated as being within range of their command element even if their command element is destroyed.

 

There are at least three ways to interpret this! One possibility is that the unit is considered to be in command range, but since rules as written states they can not benefit from their command element for this disorder test, they don't get the extra die even thought they ARE counted as being in range of their command element. A second is that they still have to take the check but can benefit from the command element bonus die from the Javi. And the third possibility is that as long as the Javi is on the table before the unit's command element dies they never have to take the disorder test at all because their command element never really goes down! 

 

I think number 3 is a pretty clear abuse of the rules and I won't argue for that one. Number 2 seems the most reasonable, but a pure Rules As Written interpretation would have to go with number 1 (no effect from the Javi when a command element goes down). What do you all think?

 

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The unit took damage so a test is needed. Command has nothing to do with taking a test or not, just the amount of dice so 3 is out.

 

1 makes no sense as the Javi special rules overrides the general rules with an "ALWAYS" (they even put it in capitals) and then added even if the other command element is destroyed or out of range. I don't think they can make it any more clear unless they want to add "yes we really mean it".

 

2 would be correct. Did it take damage? Yes it needs a disorder test. Is it in command range of its command element? ALWAYS! add an extra dice.

 

Both RAW and RAI seem the same here to me.  

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The unit took damage so a test is needed. Command has nothing to do with taking a test or not, just the amount of dice so 3 is out.

 

1 makes no sense as the Javi special rules overrides the general rules with an "ALWAYS" (they even put it in capitals) and then added even if the other command element is destroyed or out of range. I don't think they can make it any more clear unless they want to add "yes we really mean it".

 

2 would be correct. Did it take damage? Yes it needs a disorder test. Is it in command range of its command element? ALWAYS! add an extra dice.

 

Both RAW and RAI seem the same here to me.  

 

"The unit took damage." Not in this case. The unit in question did not take any damage; its command element was destroyed. 

 

From the PDF: 

 

Should the Command Element be Destroyed or Withdraw from the battle,

ALL Squadrons in the Helix must take an immediate Disorder Test requiring
TWO successes – without the bonus for Command Element.

 

"without the bonus for Command Element" could be interpreted as an absolute statement, not one added as an order of operations clarification. If taken that way, then you don't get the extra die from command element, not because the test takes place after the command element is removed, but because the rules say you don't get the command element bonus. 

 

For the record, I also think #2 makes the most sense, but I'm playing devil's advocate here. 

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This sounds like a thread for the sake of a thread. 

 

Here is the exact rule for the Javi:

 

ADDITIONAL Tactical Action Card over and above the number stated for the game size. In addition friendly Relthozan forces within the Command Spire’s Command Radius are ALWAYS considered to be within range of their Command Element, even if this is not possible (due to their Command Element being destroyed or out of range!)
 
How with the highlighted in red part (take from the Orbats) is this a questions? 
 
There is no devil's advocate here, the Javi rules CLEARLY supersede the rulebook, because it calls out that they do. 
 
If you are Relthozan, and in command range of a Command Spire on your side you ALWAYS get an additional dice as if you were in range of your command element. 

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