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Sky drop tax?

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So...

 

I'm looking at the Circe. Near as I can tell, it's basically a tax to use our infantry in an offensive role, or, well, sky drop anything, ever.

 

After that, though, I'm not sure what it does except provide TV for the enemy. I'm guessing the target lock is there to pretend it has another role? How often does that function work?

 

 

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Whilst it has the designator, once you have markers zeroed it's an ablative shield as well as adding a reasonable cqb value to the squadron.

 

But yes, since the orbat update and the increasing of our sky drop value - the circe is a bit underwhelming in the task of designating drop zones.  I find that I have to use the 2 from my core to definitely get a zero marker now

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Hit the nail on the head there gents:

 

It is one of the tools I used to prove that skydropping Nyx are not broken ~ you have to pay for at least 1 circe.

 

They can be extremely useful against other skydropping infantry with their high *punishing* CQB other than that, after turn 1 I generally use them as ablative wounds.

 

Rememer: they don't give away TV untill the unit they are attached to is destroyed.

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I do think a slight 10/15pt decrease in cost may actually fix the circe however that's my opinion.  Still take 4 in my 6k list and generally they don't disappoint.

 

That or 6 inch range increase or 5 ad....I can only dream 

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I think what it needs is just to make the target lock useful again. Why not using two Nexus designator values? For example 4/6, where 4 is when it is used to lower a sky drop marker and 6 is when the target lock is used. Or reduce to 3+ the number of hits the Circe needs to get that placed shot, with a rule like "Advanced targeted systems: this figurine only needs 3+ hits to get a placed shot bonus when using the Target Lock MAR".

 

For now, it is just impossible to rely on the target lock, making the Circe almost useless once the sky drops assets have been brought. It is quite hard to score 4 hits with only 4 dices. If someone knows how to calculate this kind of probability, I think that would be interesting.

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The chance of getting 4+ Hits on 4 AD is 38%.  Not horrible, but not reliable either.

 

Thanks for the maths, can you give us the formula? It would be interesting to compare the results with for example 5 or 6 AD.

 

Indeed, 38% isn't reliable at all...

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I wouldn't mathhammer too hard... all the skydrop complaints did make us look at it and the very heated discussion ended in a few tweaks for 2.0.

 

The AD nerf of the Nexus designator, and so the sky drop nerf,  is totally deserved. I think that 4 is ok, it forces the Dindrenzi player to often use two designators to zero a drop site, which is a good thing.

But giving a miniature a target designator that won't do anything 2 out of 3 times is ridiculous and pointless.

Moreover, I really don't think that giving 5 or 6 AD, just for target lock purposes, would be overpowered, especially for 120 points. It would give the Circe another utility (once all skydrop assets have been brought) than just being put in front of the other tanks to be destroyed first.

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Let's just say Nexus/Skydrop got further major nurfed, buffed, buffed again, and finally nurfed again but differently. And people wonder why testing takes so long. Its decently balanced but makes us Dindrenzi have to think more about the purpose of our builds rather than the 1.5 take a little of everything mindset.

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For me, I rarely use the target lock ability in fairness so it doesn't bother me that it generally is a misfiring ability.  What I would like is a return to the range it used to have.  

 

Sky Drop will always be an issue, unless your opponent actually realises how to restrict it's threat

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I personally like the thing. It makes sky drops more accurate, it gives it's squadron a lot more CQB power, it can Target Lock, it can be used as an ablative shield and it can deny TV by going into hidding. 

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Thanks for the maths, can you give us the formula? It would be interesting to compare the results with for example 5 or 6 AD.

 

Indeed, 38% isn't reliable at all...

 

Probability and Firestorm: http://www.anydice.com syntax -- output xd [explode d{0, 0, 0, 1,1,2}] Replace 1's with 0's to test targeted strikes, DT, Elusive, etc...

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Don't underestimate the ablative armor effect of the Circe, or the fact that i might destroy the 3 Eryiss / 2 Kratos its attached to, only for you to run the Circe off the table, denying me half the TV for the unit (which basically makes it a saving vs me just wiping out the 3 Eryiss).

It blocks line of sight, which in an army full of hit and run is hardly a bad thing, and it has a chance when you move to give you placed shots, and 38% is a lot better than 0%, which the Terrans, Directorate, Sorylians & Relthozans have (the Aquans also have a 4 AD designator with Target lock)

The CQB boost should never be underestimated, and with careful positioning you can get all that CQB lovelieness (which benefits from re-rollings initial 1's) so that if the enemy gets a luck chain of CQB dice, its likely to only kill the Circe, rather than an Eryiss (or Kratos).

 

I get that people want it to be better than it is (as most people do with most of their units), but so far I don't think anything really justifies any further changes. 

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