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Mazin1

Gameplay with the Vaxiss

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It's depressing how dead these forums are. Oh well, I'll ask the question anyways.

Has anyone played the Vaxiss with the latest changes? Seems a little under gunned for a 500 points.anyone have any experience with it?

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It's depressing how dead these forums are. Oh well, I'll ask the question anyways.

Has anyone played the Vaxiss with the latest changes? Seems a little under gunned for a 500 points.anyone have any experience with it?

 

Yep.

 

At first blush, it looks like a simple high-damage, short range ground attack option. This is sometimes correct in a vacuum, but once you start placing it on the table with competing units, things become a bit more colored.

 

1. It is slow. Like the Sorylian and Directorate gunships, it rumbles along at a sedate pace for a flyer. In fact, it shares the same cruising speed as your light elements, so don't expect any rapid, accurate response from it. The advantage here is that it flies and ignores terrain and intervening models. Your rapid response will be rushed.

 

2. It really does have short range, but not the shortest of a primary squadron in the role(thanks for playing, Sorylians). You *have* to get into your enemies teeth to use this thing. It, I assume, is meant to be an aggressive ground attack option only -- certain other races have ground attack with standoff ranges, but not this unit. This puzzles me a bit -- all the fast movers have standoff range weapons, and the slow movers don't. Be sure you start it in its primary operational area, because it is not a trivial matter to respond across the map effectively with it. 

 

3. It's not undergunned, just nearsighted -- sort of. As a primary ground attack squadron, it brings more raw dice from primary munitions than anyone else, by a slim margin. For CQB, it ranks second to last just ahead of the Terran gunships(who are more unit escorts, really). However, you are paying on average 125 percent the cost of every other primary squadron for this, but there are reasons for that that have nothing to do with guns and may mitigate the cost, see point 5. Once you start buying entire helixes in the other races, this goes out the window: The Vaxiss isn't even in the same league of damage output and response capability.

 

4. It's a leviathan, which is good and bad. As a model, it is tougher than the other ground attack options. As a squadron, it is more fragile. Harder to kill in a single volley, but much easier to plink out of existence. It's also its own command unit, which helps because it's not elite, a quality it shares only with the Terrans. Why it has a radius at all attached to that MAR, I have no idea. It's the only model in its helix-squadron and the drone node really isn't worth the assistance.

 

5. It's a drone controller with a pretty good nexus designator underslung. It also adds to the numerous pile of sky drops the army can bring. 

 

It looks, after rumination(and in play) like it really is a ground support unit with guns. It designates drop markers, provides drone control to forward drone units, and offers another target to shoot at. It is expensive, yes, and fragile as a squadron, and in a vacuum the helix doesn't supply operational ability worth the cost. It has to be integrated with the rest of the forces the army fields to get the most use out of it.

 

And it is very pretty.

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15/10 and 12/8 are a lot of dice. I play Aquan and comparing their ground attrack helix and for a similar price(460 2 Kalari actually) you get 24/16. I guess the Vaxiss has 2 shots but I guess not the concentration of dice. I guess it comes down to playing it(duh lol).

Being pretty was never in question. But yes, it is very pretty. It's the reason I chose to pick up Relthoza.

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Aquans also get better than 50% range increase on both EF/LR.  I've played the Vaxiss in a couple of "test" games where we didn't do TV/scenarios/etc. and in 4 "real" games since the new stats came out.  So far, I'm not very impressed by the new version.  On the plus side, it has the most useful Nexus Designator in the army with a  flying platform to deliver it.  On the negative, it's too short-ranged.  Every time I've tried to get EF shots, I've gotten counter-charged into CQB from the opponent.  While flat-out flying plus cloaked means non-interceptors have a very hard time putting damage on, you won't last long in CQB at all.  Pecking away with "long" range shots (ha) is somewhat better, but still gets you uncomfortably close.  LR shots also tend to do basically nothing to most heavy units.  You almost always need to be going flat-out to improve your defense, and two shots of 10 dice at -1 to hit tend to not make it past unit defenses, assuming you aren't harrasing scout squads with your Leviathan.  It has had far too little impact on the games I've played for its point cost and status as a Leviathan.  LR is too puny to amount to much, and EF is an offer to be CQB'd out of the sky.

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I play Prussians in DW so get what they'd going for to a point but the Prissians have amazing cqb. I feel the Relthoza have been over nerfed in some aspects. Give them higher cqb to compensate for shorter ranges and less models in their units.

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Thanks guys. Judging from the lack of activity on the Relthoza sub section it seems like people are tired of talking about it and either not playing or waiting for 2.0.

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Having dutifully tested out the new stats, I probably won't be playing Relthoza again.  If 2.0 changes things or they give back at least some flexibility in the list, I'll reassess at that point.  Until then, I'm all-in on Directorate and waiting for Ally forces to be a thing.

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Thanks guys. Judging from the lack of activity on the Relthoza sub section it seems like people are tired of talking about it and either not playing or waiting for 2.0.

 

I get that feeling as well.  I'm still bending, twisting, and shoving the army through several permutations of list build and haven't been terribly impressed. Several helixes are effectively useless, relying solely on enemy error or enemy movement to do anything at all. Some, like the assault helix, can't even manage that.

 

I have picked up Dindrenzi in the meantime. 

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yeah, its a shame that an army is one thing at launch and then turns over time into something else till it sits in the box.

 

 

It wasn't even over time, it was over*night*. The changes were sudden, and most distressingly, the responses our cautions and complaints got were in some cases both rude and/or hostile. I had never seen quite that attitude on the forums before, and I imagine that it discourages  many from posting.

 

 

If there were any acknowledgement of our concerns, or any traction in the attempts to initiate dialogue that didn't end as thoughtlessly as they have so far, there would probably be more life in the faction and the subforum. Without dialogue, there's nothing to do at the moment.

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In terms of activity this feels like one of the most active times on this branch of the forum, the Relthoza branch always feels slow to me.

 

That being said, I haven't had a chance to play the new update yet and I'm kinda dreading it since my favorite thing in the faction is no longer possible(drop-pod assaulting infantry) but I don't actually know how the changes affect how our pocket leviathan plays on the table. I think the changes were largely reasonable for it though, losing range on it feels like one of the most reasonable places to lose range.

 

The weird part about using it I've found is timing on the drop pods which are part of it's helix so you have to activate the helix first to be able to drop them ahead of your main helix's drop-pods but you generally want to be using the Vaxxis to support your other troops and have it activate after your main helix(at least that was my experience previously).

 

The changes were several steps to far, it feels like they hit a lot of the things that needed nerfing continued on nerfing everything in sight. I guess their Relthoza tester's luck turned around majorly during testing :P .

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I really hope that they get the relthoza back into alignment with playability....otherwise I'll probably just disconnect from spartan games all together and encourage my friends to do the same. I'm not really willing to be pushed towards another faction. If I can't (viably) play the faction I really like, what's the point of playing? If a company isn't concerned enough with my satisfaction and enjoyment of their product, why should I give them my money? 

There are way too many good options out there for me to waste my hard earned money on games that aren't fun for me to play due to imbalance. 

Edited by Punisher357
grammatical error

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