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Captain_Dan

Suggestions for a Sorylian Battleship

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Hmm, well, the Sorylians have the Kestros as opener (that recently got some love), and maybe the carrier+warwolf as T1, or we can get trhow some allies to the mix.

 

btw. Has someone tried the battlestation? In the last tournament I saw the only sorylian player had one, but was unable to ask him  about its effectiveness. The tournament was set to 800 p patrol fleets.

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I see.

 

There is one more thing I have to comment about T1s: Do you think it will be a good idea giving the Xiphos/Morningstar the option to upgrade the Fore Fixed scatter to  Kinetics? Or it will be too OP? It's because it uses to be paired with gunships rather than cruisers

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As Dansg's main sorylian opponent his summation was spot on.  I can't buy a win against him.  The fleet as a whole needs to be tougher or a lot faster. They just can't take the hit and hit back with any force when they get into range. Weapon shielding would help for free but the cruisers are about 10 points over costed. I've never really gotten off a double broadside due to my opponent playing castle dindrenzi or terrain bein in the way

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I'm amused that you think the cruisers are over costed, they're typically my MVP.  I think Sorylian AP values are a big part of their cost, especially when coupled with what amounts to fleet wide special forces for a turn as a TAC.  

Sorylian against Dindrenzi is really about as bad as it gets in terms of exploiting a racial disadvantage.  It's up there with Tarrakian v Relthoza.  You're in a pretty awful RB3 when he's hitting you at a powerful RB2.  Defensive use of terrain is absolutely vital.  Enforce 25% terrain coverage as standard, and don't take no for an answer.  It is hugely important to balance.  If you can keep most of your fleet together and pop out at 16in or less, you'll be eating him alive, and if you're particularly clever and don't mind a little mines, he won't be able to put those front guns on much of your force. 

All that being said, I don't think I've ever won a game against Din where the enemy alpha strike rolled average or better. 

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When you have the time, maybe it would be benificial to write down your specific anti-Dindrenzi tactics.  As a Dindrenzi player, I don't really adjust my tactics to fight Sorylians:  Strike Hard, Strike Fast, GTFO (as in, Fold Space before get close, if you didn't destroy your target).  As long as I can get shots in the 20"-48" range, Sorylians are easy targets.  So basic strategy is to prevent this, I suppose.

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We always play a good amount of terrain, however he keeps his fleet together, I have tried splitting forces to outflank but half a fleet will not do enough damage to win a game, the frigates can do enough damage to cr a cruiser easily. He will also bring in reserves on my back line to further split my force or take shots at my rear . Best result I've had was shunting in the battleship and taking his with boarding, his face was a picture. This can't be used as a reliable tactic due to reserve entry, scatter etc. After that he will always bring escorts 

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Din specific tactics are very similar to general Sorylian tactics, but exaggerated a bit in regards to early game defensive movement.

Reserve half your fleet.  Everything in the patrol box is a good option here.  Anything you start on the table should either be 1) REALLY fast for movement flexibility or 2) gunships (carrier counts).  Drives to max is a defensive TAC, don't let anybody tell you different.

Imagine the enemy units are light sources, and terrain is an object that blocks light and casts a shadow.  Put your units in positions where they can move from shadow to shadow in a single turn.  Enemy units will generally migrate along open paths that maximize their ability to illuminate the board.  This is takes some time to get a feel for, figuring out how far 8, 10, and 12in really is, and where your ass will be hanging out.  Have a plan of where your units will end their turn two movement before you put them on the board. 

Completely de-prioritize offensive firepower until turn three.  Your torpedoes are your only effective weapon when moving this way, and your fore arc will inevitably have some target of opportunity available.  Don't over think it, and given the option, plink a T1.   

Commit everything you have in a single turn, probably turn three.  String your ships within a squad out in a line, generally sweep the sides of an enemy swarm first, getting a broadside and fore fixed shot in where possible.  Turn into the center of the swarm the turn after, looking for rear arc shots.  If you are going to eat mines, prioritize clearing a space for your frigates over getting one more shot in.  Use your battleship for this duty.  Double broadsides happen because your opponent did something stupid, not because you did something smart.  Exploit the opportunity of one when you get it, but don't try to force it; either by activating too soon such that one of your other activations won't have a target later this turn, or by moving into a position that will result in poor opportunities for this activation next turn. 

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In anti-Dindrenzi tactics I'll add, don't try to Critical Hit Dindrezni ships.  Generally, their CR is twice their DR.  That means you need twice the firepower to Crit as to just do one damage. Instead, aim for a solid chance to beat their DR and take multiple shots to kill them with a hundred cuts. Let the inevitable damage do the work instead of swinging for the fence and missing.  It only takes 7 AD to get a 75% chance of getting 4 Hits along with a 23% chance of getting 8 Hits.

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Anti-Din tactics: Have Ganash Kragg command your  fleet, then shunt in a heavy cruiser squadron in front of his most expensive ship on turn 1 by paying 1 BL and board it playing "thermal controls", and broadside any T2 squadron. If you play veydreth you can ambush some assault cruisers or gunships (not necesarily maxed up)  and reveal them on turn 1 for extra hurt on their AD, then race the rest of your fleet while they'll be  busy dealing with those ships. Next turn  shunt another squadron (if available) and keep dishing the world of hurt unto them :lol:;)

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I have read somewhere in the forums Mr. Kragg lets you deploy from reserves in turn 1, but if not, you can wait till turn 2 or go with Veydreth in turn 1 then let the heavies come in turn 2 depending on the situation. The idea here is giving the Dins something to worry about while the rest of the fleet races into "broadside happy " position lol :)

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Since 2.0 wants 6 x 4 tables the very first thing to do is open up their guns to 10 bands like Beams. 8 inch bands have no place in 2.0 unless some specialized weaponry. That would at least give Sorys. a chance to do something crossing the table. Adding decent Kinetics to the big Sory ships as a hardpoint option is a no brainer and you could even make it say if you take Kinetic you can't take the AP option to keep it a more specialized ship. The Sorys are an advanced ancient race and they wouldn't have ships that HAVE to hide in hyperspace then jump into the middle of battle with the hopes of getting into the right place and of course they would realize they are constantly being out ranged and shredded. The fact that Sory players try to add more terrain to hide behind than a typical 40k game is both silly and sad.

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Didn't the Terrans get their shield tech from the Sorylies? Now Soroylie ships with short scatter guns and more shields.. That would be more entertaining.. Yes I know shields are fickle but it makes you feel like you can take more smaller hits and shrug them off as well as reducing torpedo volleys down by a significant margin. (6 die or more when combined SH with PD, even reduced, giving you a statistical 6 etc ).

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I managed to get a few games in with the Sorylians in the past couple of months, mainly to see what's what and if they're a fleet I would be interested in playing. In the process, I got to use the Falx a fair bit... 

As a ship starting on the table, it sucks. Big time. Mainly for the reasons why I don't fear it when I'm facing one in an enemy fleet. Too slow, guns don't have the reach, doesn't have the defences to get to the enemy with enough dice to do anything meaningful. As a punching bag, the Falx is brilliant. For anything else, it's well... Rubbish. As a Shunt Bomb, it's good, but if that Falx is also your admiral's flag, then that means no TACs until it shows up. This led me to building an ideal (for me, at least) Sorylian fleet that plays to their strengths, while minimising the Falx's issues... 

It doesn't have a Falx in it. There's a Hasta with two Reapers to act as flagship, a squadron of Falcatas for heavy boarding work, Harvesters (running Pack Hunters and Decimator Kinetics) to shell things at long range, Plumbatas for harassment duties, Flechettes and more Reapers to threaten enemy Tier 2s with gunnery and boarding assaults. 1200pts and no bloody battleship. The only time I've run something that crazy in any fleet was an 800pts Terran carrier patrol build with an Orion/Solar as flagship running a Hauberk BFF and defensive air group. I also made a 2000pts variant with more Reapers, a squadron of Warwolves running Nuclear Torpedoes, and a Falx to basically act as either a really big distraction/punching bag, or a Shunt Bomb. Hasta still runs as a flagship (yes, I would rather have a squishy BC be a Sorylian flagship than the Falx... Says a lot doesn't it?). 

The Falx is the Missionary/Hauberk Shunt Bomb turned up to 11, that's all it can do really. The funny thing is, the Sorylians can be a really powerful fleet, just leave the Falx at home and run a Boarding/Kinetics/Scatter build as described above (I've done it to Dindrenzi, they don't like it when anyone else does their thing better than they can, and then you steal their ships. It also works against Terrans). There are two options to give the Sorylians a usable, multi-role battleship: One: make it a Nausicaa with Scatter Broadsides and a torpedo launcher that actually makes sense. Two: make it fast, like, stupidly fast. That's it unless you want a one trick Shunt Bombing pony that may also have to be a flagship. 

 

TL:DR Version: The Sorylian fleet doesn't suck at all. Their battleship, on the other hand... 

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