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New ORBAT evaluations based on games ...

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I thought I’d start a thread where players could report their findings/evaluations of the new ORBATS (thanks to those who worked on them) based on experiences from actual games …

 

Well we finally got around to trying out the new ORBATS over the weekend and, whilst I’m not a Relthozan player, I’ve gotta say I think they were hit too hard with the nerf bat at least in one area.

 

We played a 2v1 game – I had two 3,500 point battlegroups and each of my opponents controlled their own 3,500 point battlegroup. So a 7,000 point game. I had Aquan and Sorylian and my opponents both had Relthozan. Admittedly the game began very poorly for one of my opponents – he’d given his Visith recon and charged straight for my leviathan. I won the initiative and by the end of the activation his Visith unit was down to a single tank with one wound on it. I’ve gotta say that the Aquan leviathan is an absolute beast now. I’ve always stayed away from it due to the lack of independent targeting, but now it has it, it can rip through multi-wound targets with abandon. Personally I’d like to see the pinpoint reduced to 2, unless they are combined, in which case it increases to 4 – similar to the Assault Helix.

 

One of the Relthozan players gave most of his army recon and was able to advance down the line before the game began. Unfortunately for him the Aquans and their placed shots tore apart most of his forces before he was able to engage with any real effectiveness.

 

It was even worse for my other opponent, as without recon most of his heavy hitters did very little in a game that was virtually over by the end of the first turn – my Zero Hour Tracker was down from 70 to 19. Their Zero Hour Tracker was down from 70 to 54. We did start to play the second turn but they both conceded very quickly into it. He was able to engage my Sorylian Recon Helix and inflict some substantial losses on it, but it and the rest of my Sorylian force were able to give back so much more (except for my heavy infantry, who jumped out in front of a unit of Salamas and unloaded in CQB with a whopping 3 successes off 20 dice!). And, apart from my Recon Helix and a unit of Bor’Kas, my Sorylians survived the battle virtually unscathed.

 

Anyway, some observations from the game:

  • The Aquan Leviathan packs perhaps too great a punch now with potentially two pinpoint 4 weapons.
  • The nerf to the Relthozan spires is tough but not necessarily broken, with two of the three dropped spires able to be destroyed (and the infantry inside forced to move and get an immediate activation marker) before their next activation. We decided we could see the tactical possibilities without them having the ‘Assault’ MAR – you just need to be selective about where and when you use them. If your opponent is activating a helix on the other side of the board, then go for it – there’s nothing he can do about. The other possibility is that it forces the non-Relthozan player to prioritise his targets – does he try to destroy that big ugly spire that just dropped down or that big ugly bug on the other side of the table attempting to get into range. As a side note, the heavy infantry, though, are now much better – being the only infantry in the game who can potentially take a secondary objective on turn one.
  • The range nerf to the Vardis is just ridiculous. Both players ran with a Heavy Helix and both of their Vardis’ did absolutely nothing all game. Actually, I stand corrected – they managed to draw some fire away from the rest of the army. I’m not sure what the designers and play testers were thinking when they came up with a 20 inch range, but honestly it is just too short, especially when you can’t give them recon either. I was all for changes to the Relthozan army, but there is something seriously messed up with this change. Why would any Relthozan player choose to take a Heavy Helix anymore? Maybe one of the play testers could shed some light on this – although I notice this has already been asked quite a few times without any reply.
  • The nerf to the designators wasn’t that bad – both players still managed to zero in a number of sites. Having said that, it took over 10 minutes just to set up the Sky Drop Markers. Why do the Relthozans have to have soooo many of them? Why not just reduce the number of markers and designators in the army, but increase the effectiveness of those that do exist? In the end we just decided that for future games we’ll just place them all simultaneously to cut down on time and dice off if opposing players want to put them in/near the same place.

 

Anyway, they’re just a few observations from a non-Relthozan player.

 

TL:DR

·         Post your evaluations of the new ORBATS from actual games in this thread.

·         The Aquan Leviathan is potentially in need of a nerf – reduce the pinpoint to 2 unless the weapons are combined.

·         Most of the Relthozan changes seem playable although the Vardis range nerf is definitely NOT.

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Excellent feedback.

 

Have you got pictures of terrain or descriptions of it? How much was used? Many firing lanes?

 

Something that came up a lot in our testing was we were using quite a varied amount of terrain with some big LOS blockers. This obviously had a huge impact on my personal testing, hence why we found the Relthoza to be absolutely devastating because they could pick some safe advancement areas and get in to their sweet spot. However other games were used with minimal terrain in which the Sorylian's simply became the most powerful faction going. That's something for 2.0 to clear up as Terrain makes a massive impact on games and tactics.

 

Also - try do some games between 4000 and 6000 points, 1 faction vs 1 faction. Let us know how you get on!

 

Top job buddy

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Played a game last night with the 2.0 Orbats

 

Terran vs Dinzi & RSN

 

Played 4k

 

Terran took

Core

2x Vidars + Ullr Mk2

3x Hemidals + Ullr Mk2 + Nukes

3x Hemidals + Ullr Mk2 + Nukes

5 x Valkyries

1x Sinsir + Ullr Mk2 

Embarked LI - Officer, 3x Sweeper, 2x Hirdmen

1x LI - Officer, 3x Gun Teams, 2 x Hirdmen

 

Heavy

1x Tyr + Ullr Mk2

3x Baldr + Ullr Mk2

 

Levi

1x Odin + Nuclear Munitions

 

4 X Logistics Points

 

Dinzi took

 

Core

2x Kratos

3x Eris + Circe

3x Eris

5x Nyx + Pod

5x Nyx + pod

5x Letos

5x Letos

 

Levi

1x Hyperion + Sky drop

 

RSN

 

Archangel

Temple

6x Seraphs

 

Things I found (Terran) Odin is a very good fire base especially now we can deploy infantry right into a primary and then use the shield projector to keep them safer.

Baldrs for all the flak they get if used more aggressively can get into range and support Hemidals/Vidars on a central push I used mine to snipe away Eris before blasting them with Hemidals and also they took off the last point of DR from the Hyperion which is better than my Tyr has ever managed to do.

 

I forgot to use the new rule for the Sinsir and that would of helped control a secondary earlier. Ullr Mk 2 are handy especially on hemi squadrons when you get into a gun fight. 2 squads of Eris versus 2 hemidals caused carnage in the middle of turn 2 

 

Hover while a pain is ok the way it is I had lots of moments weighing up do i move and get in ef or use placed shots and my opponent i think had the same does he close in for kinetic or stay back and snipe as he did with his Kratos.

 

The nyx aren't as bad as they look the pods don't have assault vehicle so each time one landed i blew it up to force the poor nyx to run away and then destroyed them at ease. Feel the Pods could do with at least 1 TV not 0.

 

Finally managed a game where i destroyed the temple again it feels low on TV now it lands with a smack with 15 CQB

 

Hyperion still goes down to focus fire even if it does avoid being Odin one shotted using that sneaky inner plating (1Dmg, 3 PP sixes turned into 2 after re rolls then my Tyr failed as it always does and the Baldrs had to show it how to do it) The Skydrop choice is a good one now especially as you don't really have time to zero in all those markers so its a good risk/reward.

 

Inner Reflective Plating is very handy it saved the hyperion as mentioned but also save the last DR on the Archangel so i had to use another one of the Odins guns to finish the job.

 

CQB boost from the Ullr is nice and i found they were helpful in removing any nyx lie around with the hemidals while the one on the Baldrs didn't see much action the on e on the Tyr meant that i didn't lose the Tv for it when the Arch angel speared it in LCQB.

 

 

Sorry its abit garbled i'll try and tidy it up later tonight with some pics.

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Nyx pods should make an absurd amount of difference the second they land. Thats 20 or so dice into one of your squadrons. Even if you paste them with nukes afterwards, they'll have earned their worth.

Also, I'm not sure about this, but do shields and cover stack?

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Thay pass over is only if it would land on though right.

 

Correct CH. If he had models on/surrounding the nexus when Grey decided to land, that would not count as "passing" over unless the initial scatter point was touching a model.

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So my understanding of passing over and its from the printed RB that i had to hand so could be wrong.

 

Was that if a model is unable to land because of intervening models/terrain then you draw a line from the marker in the direction your deviating and continue until you can land, but any enemy model that you pass over may add their CQB to any CQB that takes place once the model lands. I says nothing about having to touch the nexus just be under where its going to land.

 

So hypothetically you could make a ring of units 6" away from the marker and greater and hope that they roll 6 for deviation becasue they always land further not closer to the marker if they can't land where they want.

 

That make sense.

 

So in our case Gray actually had clear markers but I had a group of Hemidals and Sinsirs about 6" away and he rolled just a bit too far on his deviation which triggered the move further along the line which included the 2 groups and then he had to choose cqb the hemidals and face 3 of them and an Ullr or cqb the Sinsir and Ullr plus the passed over Hemidal and Ullr.

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So in our case Gray actually had clear markers but I had a group of Hemidals and Sinsirs about 6" away and he rolled just a bit too far on his deviation which triggered the move further along the line which included the 2 groups and then he had to choose cqb the hemidals and face 3 of them and an Ullr or cqb the Sinsir and Ullr plus the passed over Hemidal and Ullr.

 

That seems correct to me

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I'm just going to come out and say that as the Dinzi player, I won :)

I feel like chris' first post here missed this important factoid from the post game analysis.

The Drop pod Nyx situation was only unfortunate to the untrained eye, I was playing for the giggles when I dropped them down without zeroing them in and as far as I was concerned the dice gods smiled and they landed where I wanted them to - they made for an excellent distraction!

 

--Gray

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I'm just going to come out and say that as the Dinzi player, I won :)

I feel like chris' first post here missed this important factoid from the post game analysis.

The Drop pod Nyx situation was only unfortunate to the untrained eye, I was playing for the giggles when I dropped them down without zeroing them in and as far as I was concerned the dice gods smiled and they landed where I wanted them to - they made for an excellent distraction!

 

--Gray

 

 

Yeah right! One landed where you wanted it too be. 

 

Your other and Your Hyperion certainly didn't and got squashed for it. Its your own fault for not bringing enough Circe's

 

You got lucky with Inner Plating saving your Levi and Archangel a little while longer and the fact that my vidars are crewed by sissys. (3 Dmg, 0 passes on the commanded check)

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Yeah right! One landed where you wanted it too be. 

 

Your other and Your Hyperion certainly didn't and got squashed for it. Its your own fault for not bringing enough Circe's

 

You got lucky with Inner Plating saving your Levi and Archangel a little while longer and the fact that my vidars are crewed by sissys. (3 Dmg, 0 passes on the commanded check)

 

They both did, both bang next to your guys :)

 

The Hyperon certainly didn't - I'll give you that!

 

I didn't leave my second Circe behind on accident, I just didn't bring it because I fancied winging the drops. I'm not sure I'd bring loads of them in future either - They're pretty one dimentional, A very important single dimension yes, but pretty much free TV for you, and less firepower for me after that...

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They both did, both bang next to your guys :)

The Hyperon certainly didn't - I'll give you that!

I didn't leave my second Circe behind on accident, I just didn't bring it because I fancied winging the drops. I'm not sure I'd bring loads of them in future either - They're pretty one dimentional, A very important single dimension yes, but pretty much free TV for you, and less firepower for me after that...

I don't know being able to hit stuff on 3s using target lock and then you can hit and run with them thats got to improve your firepower.

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I don't know being able to hit stuff on 3s using target lock and then you can hit and run with them thats got to improve your firepower.

 

Unfortunately, it is now really hard to use target lock with the Circe... 4 dice isn't enough at all to reliably score 4 hits.

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I don't know being able to hit stuff on 3s using target lock and then you can hit and run with them thats got to improve your firepower.

 

Except that you can't use hit and run and take advantage of placed shots - pg 139 of the rulebook 'Models choosing to Shoot then Move may not take advantage of any Target Locks or Specialist Fire Orders such as Overwatch or Focused Fire'.

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We had another 2v2 game tonight. Relthoza and Directorate v Terran and Aquan - 3,500 points for each battlegroup. The game was conceded after turn 1, with the Zenian League's Zero Hour Tracker at 21 and the Kurak Alliance's Zero Hour Tracker at 68. The Relthozans wiped the board with the Aquans who they squared off with. Gotta say, the changes seem to work, although there was no Relthozan Heavy Helix. Still can't see why anyone would ever take one - 20 inches? The flamethrowers on my Assault Helix mechs shoot just as far - a point we all found very amusing.

 

Anyway, if I get the chance over the next day or two I'll add in some details. But bottom line was the game seemed fairly balanced, with both sides given the opportunity to get on top at times. Unfortunately the Kurak Alliance just never seized the opportunities presented.

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