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gr1mdan

Planetfall ORBATS V6 - LIVE!

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At first glance through the Relthoza, I think there must be something wrong with the Narissa entry.  You get the choice between the anti-air weapon with interceptor and pinpoint, 6 dice at 24" OR 6 dice at 16" with no MAR?  That surely must be a mistake or there's zero point in having the second option.

 

Second thought: I seriously think Spartan should buy my heavy support unit back from me.  I obviously haven't play tested it yet, and it might be balanced with the new rules. However, I really couldn't care less.  As I suspected based on some of the conversations that have come up previously, you guys decided to completely change it's role in the army list.  I purchased the unit to add a long-range component to my force; it no longer does this.  It's a given the unit needed to be less effective than under the old rules.  It should still perform the same role.  It's insulting to paying customers to perform this kind of switch on a unit after it's been released.  

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At first glance through the Relthoza, I think there must be something wrong with the Narissa entry.  You get the choice between the anti-air weapon with interceptor and pinpoint, 6 dice at 24" OR 6 dice at 16" with no MAR?  That surely must be a mistake or there's zero point in having the second option.

 

Chelicerae Missiles should have "Corrisive" & "Barrage" MARs as per pg.2 

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At first glance through the Relthoza, I think there must be something wrong with the Narissa entry.  You get the choice between the anti-air weapon with interceptor and pinpoint, 6 dice at 24" OR 6 dice at 16" with no MAR?  That surely must be a mistake or there's zero point in having the second option.

 

Second thought: I seriously think Spartan should buy my heavy support unit back from me.  I obviously haven't play tested it yet, and it might be balanced with the new rules. However, I really couldn't care less.  As I suspected based on some of the conversations that have come up previously, you guys decided to completely change it's role in the army list.  I purchased the unit to add a long-range component to my force; it no longer does this.  It's a given the unit needed to be less effective than under the old rules.  It should still perform the same role.  It's insulting to paying customers to perform this kind of switch on a unit after it's been released.  

 

I appreciate that but wholly disagree with you - you still have 18AD @ 30" which is simply incredible and better than any other Heavy Helix still. At that range not much will be hurting you back either.

 

As you said - play with it.

 

Remember that we are still looking at changes 4-6 months down the line. If it constantly comes up then we can look at it again, however during extensive testing, it was fine and one of the easiest ways to balance the units.

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... I purchased the unit to add a long-range component to my force...

 

TBH, I think most of us purchase models because the look cool rather then to fill a specific role.

 

Even so; the nature of planetfall means that units are constantly evolving. At one point Nyx we DR6 CQB5 monsters!

Just because they have changed; doesn't mean they're useless.

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Didn't think to look at the weapon summary, good catch.  Still can't see ever taking the shorter-ranged weapon on a fixed emplacement unless it had many more dice or massively better MARs.  Corrosive never does anything for me, and barrage is....okayish, at least potentially.  Interceptor is almost always more useful than barrage (in my meta) and pinpoint is, while not predictable at all, still worth consideration.

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Didn't think to look at the weapon summary, good catch.  Still can't see ever taking the shorter-ranged weapon on a fixed emplacement unless it had many more dice or massively better MARs.  Corrosive never does anything for me, and barrage is....okayish, at least potentially.  Interceptor is almost always more useful than barrage (in my meta) and pinpoint is, while not predictable at all, still worth consideration.

 

Corrosive I find is a weird one too Paladin, it's generally exceptional on Leviathans or 3DR level units. However they generally don't make a huge difference to anything else. Barrage is very hit and miss for me but when there is Infantry holed up in a building, it's pretty good fun! Interceptor is very powerful and very useful indeed.

 

In all seriousness, have a good tinker with what lists you can come up with - see how they fare - report back!

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TBH, I think most of us purchase models because the look cool rather then to fill a specific role.

 

Even so; the nature of planetfall means that units are constantly evolving. At one point Nyx we DR6 CQB5 monsters!

Just because they have changed; doesn't mean they're useless.

They're useless for what I bought them for, which is to engage Soryllian heavies and Aquan TD's at range while the rest of my army moves up.  It's back to trying to run the cover gauntlet/distract with blind sky drops of infantry for me, I guess.

 

When they changed Nyx, they made them less capable at CQB and less tough.  They didn't take away sky drop, or remove take and hold, or remove CQB entirely.  They still did the exact same job, just less so.  That's EXACTLY what I wanted them to do with the Relthoza heavy support.  Leave them their same role in the army, just less good.  Instead they removed their unique role in the list, and they're now more of the same.  

 

Also, to gr1mdan, 18AD@30 isn't better than any other Heavy Support helix in any way, shape or form.  My normal opponents: Sorylians: 18AD@40 (and 16AD@48 from the supporting walker); Aquans: 15AD@40 (and Hit and Run, so I'll never shoot them back); Dindrezi: 18AD@36 (and Hit and Run, again).  Terrans look like a push, they have less AD but more range, so I'll probably get shot at least once before I get to return fire; call it a wash.

 

Edit: Also (and I know this won't happen, I'm just saying) the Relthoza army rule is absolutely wretched and should be changed.  We get +1 to a roll that rarely even happens, and doesn't have a huge effect on the game regardless of if you succeed or not.  Considered alongside the other army rules, they might as well leave the space blank.

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They're useless for what I bought them for, which is to engage Soryllian heavies and Aquan TD's at range while the rest of my army moves up.  It's back to trying to run the cover gauntlet/distract with blind sky drops of infantry for me, I guess.

 

When they changed Nyx, they made them less capable at CQB and less tough.  They didn't take away sky drop, or remove take and hold, or remove CQB entirely.  They still did the exact same job, just less so.  That's EXACTLY what I wanted them to do with the Relthoza heavy support.  Leave them their same role in the army, just less good.  Instead they removed their unique role in the list, and they're now more of the same.  

 

Also, to gr1mdan, 18AD@30 isn't better than any other Heavy Support helix in any way, shape or form.  My normal opponents: Sorylians: 18AD@40 (and 16AD@48 from the supporting walker); Aquans: 15AD@40 (and Hit and Run, so I'll never shoot them back); Dindrezi: 18AD@36 (and Hit and Run, again).  Terrans look like a push, they have less AD but more range, so I'll probably get shot at least once before I get to return fire; call it a wash.

 

Then they are about to where they should be instead of 18AD @ 48" then - the other Helixes are much more squishy too don't forget. Whilst I agree an AD drop would have been nice too we don't have the final say on things. We just work with what we can and so far, they still work VERY well in their role. You can still get the drop on most people remember. Just because you can't ALWAYS get it now isn't a bad thing.

 

You forget you have a purchasable MAR if so desired to get within EF quite scarily fast. They don't need to run a gauntlet either - do you play on an empty table? In our testing, under good to average terrain coverage they could move up the table without much effort to their preferred place.

 

I fully understand your worries but please play some games first and see how you fare.

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I am sympathetic to paladin's complaint; a mild range drop with a mild AD drop would have been preferable to weaken its ability; a dramatic range drop even keeping its AD changes its utility dramatically

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I am sympathetic to paladin's complaint; a mild range drop with a mild AD drop would have been preferable to weaken its ability; a dramatic range drop even keeping its AD changes its utility dramatically

 

Again, give them a test and then we can look at them again in the near future. Right now, they aren't changing.

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That's sortof my point.  With the reduced range, I see no time (other than if I really couldn't spare 60 points) that I wouldn't try to get more Salamas into my list now with Predator instead of taking Talamis.  For the points increase you get a tougher unit that has more CQB, the same AD pool, and will hit firing range sooner (with the recon move) than the TD units will.  They just don't have a place for me now.

 

Also, on our tables, we have what I would consider somewhat sub-standard cover, but not terrible.  When I say "run the gauntlet", I mean that I'll have to spend multiple turns, especially against those bane-of-my-existence lizards, running groups from building to building to tree clump, etc.  It isn't like I won't make it into range, it's just really boring/annoying to spend my time maneuvering around firing lanes while trying to dodge all the overwatch units.  I don't know that my opponent is particularly excited to play that game either.  We'll test it out and see, but I forsee much more play out of my Directorate going forwards.

 

Edit: Also, though it isn't as extreme, the Vardiss suffers from the same fate.  Before with 30 range and a move I could effectively engage opposing long-range forces.  Now he also has to hug cover and advance like the normal heavies.  The range on the Visith main weapon is actually farther and they can get Predator.  Other than hitting point value limits, it again seems like an easy choice to stick with the Core forces.

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That's sortof my point.  With the reduced range, I see no time (other than if I really couldn't spare 60 points) that I wouldn't try to get more Salamas into my list now with Predator instead of taking Talamis.  For the points increase you get a tougher unit that has more CQB, the same AD pool, and will hit firing range sooner (with the recon move) than the TD units will.  They just don't have a place for me now.

 

Also, on our tables, we have what I would consider somewhat sub-standard cover, but not terrible.  When I say "run the gauntlet", I mean that I'll have to spend multiple turns, especially against those bane-of-my-existence lizards, running groups from building to building to tree clump, etc.  It isn't like I won't make it into range, it's just really boring/annoying to spend my time maneuvering around firing lanes while trying to dodge all the overwatch units.  I don't know that my opponent is particularly excited to play that game either.  We'll test it out and see, but I forsee much more play out of my Directorate going forwards.

 

To the Directorate? They literally just crawl forward taking fire to the face and have equally as low range in most units. If your opponent is putting that much on overwatch, I'd say that's happy days. Statistically you are a ton better off with the Relthoza if they are on Overwatch. Relthoza can happily march forward, take a round to the face and give it back. I know...I've never seen them lose in my area until we started to make the changes and then it evened up. Nerfs are not nice in any form, be that AD reduction, range or DR, but the fact is that you still have the most resilient force in the game with some insanely powerful units that can move up the table unharmed to get that perfect strike off. Granted the new stats have changed their role in a way - it's what sometimes must happen to balance them out.

 

I'm a Terran and Dindrenzi player at heart and that's literally the game for most of it - it's all about fire and manoeuvre, taking pot shots, using Air attacks, artillery, Sky drops. We don't have insanely long range firepower and if we do, it's generally low AD. It makes the whole game more about fire and move, get to objectives, and a lot more fun than two armies sat on the back table doing "placed shots" all the time!

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*EDIT*

 

Aquans, Sorylians, Relthoza and Terran have had a few small fixes.

 

Aquans and Sorylians = Transport Cap is @ 10 instead of 9

 

Relthoza = Chelicerae Missiles fixed

 

Terran = Wording fixed on the Assault Robots.

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Between the Wraith, double ground attack air (and arty support), and arty support from the Command Barge, I have zero issues with engaging at range or mobility with Directorate.  While the ground units are fairly static, the air force lets you engage early and often while you position the troops.  I don't mind moving the ground guys around if I'm doing something else too.

 

My overwatch problems are, specifically, vs. Sorylians.  They have enough 40+ range units that they can block off movement lanes and still send out their light/medium elements to handle your Namsics.  While infantry drops can break this down, I can't usually zero in the markers before I drop due to having 20 range on the designators and needing to shoot at markers covered by 40+ units.  It just ins't a very fun setup.

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Second thought: I seriously think Spartan should buy my heavy support unit back from me. 

 

If Spartan wont (sorry couldnt resist), and you seriously decide to sell the Helix let me know because I am in the market for a Relthozan Heavy helix. 

 

Honestly, guess it depends where in the world you live but I would consider it! 

 

Also Yay New ORBATS!!!!

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Also Yay New ORBATS!!!!

 

 

Come on, let's give it the fanfare it deserves:

 

"*:•.-:¦:--:¦:-•:*"'"*:•.-:¦:-•* YaY New ORBATs! *:•.-:¦:--:¦:-•:*"'"*:•.-:¦:-•*"

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Possible Mistake:

 

Checking all of the Ground attack MAR on all the Ground attack Gunships/Heavy Gunships, they read "This Squadron may fire its Main Ordnance while moving Flat Out provided the target squadron are Flying models – These shots are considered to be Rushed. "

 

I assume this is supposed to read "This Squadron may fire its Main Ordnance while moving Flat Out provided the target squadron are Ground models – These shots are considered to be Rushed."?

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With all due respect to the test team takes ... but it's a bad joke (the new ORBAT).

I do not know what style of play, but I find that it does not meet ...
What can you do against the Directorate / Double Helix Leviathan's Alpha Strike?

No ... I am not necessary to play, I played enough of it so I can see that it is impossible.

I look forward to your response ....

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Yes the Directorat Leviathen was nearly impossible to kill before a buff and a drop in the ground attack helix getting cheaper also works raptor getting better with their game swinging race mar. These changes seem to simply make a good already used force list even better.

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The Leviathan is ridiculously good against everything.  Forces with sky drop AA assets (Relth, Aquan, Dindrezi) can be slightly worrying, but are relatively easy to plan against since the marker is stationary.  Against anything else, I can pretty much engage at will and not care.  While it would seem that Interceptor helixes could cause concern, I have never worried about them due to the large amount of Interceptor available to the Directorate forces.  They just don't live long enough to close to their short ranges and fire.  I saw a buff to the Leviathan and was pleased, because I like to play it.  On second thought, it probably shouldn't get a DR buff.  It's already the MVP most of the time I play it, it doesn't really need to be better.

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The Directorate Leviathan is quite tough but it crumbles into pieces when you start throwing a few CQB dice at it.

 

To be honest, I don't think it needed a DR boost but this buff doesn't really change the way to kill it.

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