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Spartan : how to get a full tier 2 from a 2 player set?

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And yeah, I was really up for giving TY a go but those prices were nuts.

 

Nice book by Coyle btw.

 

But I still prefer Red Storm Rising... ;)

 

And 15mm is a bit on the large size for WW3 imo.

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So then buy the box and sell the Frigates? That's just my capitalist pig dog attitude though ;-)

 

In all seriousness - there can be improvements made to how they do singles but I still disagree it's anywhere near as bad as you claim.

 

Unfortunately I still think anything around £20 is quite measly in terms of wargaming. Maybe that's just our strong currency, I don't know. It certainly doesn't help exports at the moment.

 

For example: Team Yankee starter sets for the USA is £50 for FIVE, yes FIVE plastic 15mm M1 Abrams and 2 Cobras. The Russian set is £75.00 for 9 15mm T-72s and 2 Hinds. Safe to say THAT kind of pricing puts me right off a game. Ditto with DZC. One Heavy Dropship is £19.00! It's about 3 Plumbatas worth of resin...However £17.50 for a squadron of 5 Corvettes I can stomach. If they could be cheaper, then great, but for now it's not breaking the bank.

-Tier 3 box:

selling the frigates is Kind of impossible here in my location since everybody that wants to have a second set will also be able to use the smaller Corvettes/Drones/...

so I tend to have frigates to spare for all my fleets, (Pathogen is waiting for them).

Assuming anew guy wants to build up a big fleet like my Aquans:

I normally want 2 battleships, which are only availabel in the patrolfleet box, and a second set of cruisers, therefore the patrofleet box is doubled in all my fleets (except Directorate, where I have the ROTO Ships + a patrolfleet)

So a total of two sets of frigates by now.

I will then need the second Tier 3 like the Aquan Snapper Corvettes, so I have to by 2 sets of the Tier 3 box, which gives me another 2 sets of frigates.

4 Squadrons is to much even for nutcases like myself!

I would recommend to splitt the original Tier 3 box (EG Aquan Fritgate and Corvette box) as two Blisters.

In my case I would then buy 2 of the Corvettes 2 have 2 Groups per fleet.

People that are happy with one patrolfleet (BS) can buy a total of 3 Blisters and have 2 squadrons each

and if you are wargaming on a Budget, and want to increase above 800 Points you can now buy just the 1 needed Tier 3 squadron.

As a Price you can even add 1-2 Pound compared to the Tier 3 box, and it would be a better deal for me.

Spartan can then delete the Tier 3 box form their list of items, and it is just one item more per faction.

- Escorts:

for a new fleet getting the escorts with the big guys is OK,

but I am still missing escorts on some of my older fleets, and a escort Blister would be helpfull,

This one could be a limited Edition (2 years) until everybody has upgraded their old ships. (if you are later then that Parts shop shoud be the solution)

- Taskforce Full squadrons

This is the real Problem since every new costumer who bought the Starters will now need a single ship, and Blisters of 2 ships (direcotrate & aquan/...) could solve the Problem,

or a Kind of club offer :all 6 Tier 2 in one package, for Club limited offer via the parts shop.

Team Yankee:

I would have loved to get the new aircraft, since I like aircraft, and the idea of fielding them got me Close to entering the game

- but I will never buy it, since I have seen the A-10 Warthog models, they are double the Price to 1:144 scale revell/airfix models, and not competitive in Quality.

I can't understand why some of my friends had to buy them from Battlefornt at all.

-The tank models, and rules are good.

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Just trying to think of ways that 2 light cruisers or escort carriers would be useful...

What if you could take them as escorts for Tier 1 carriers / battleships?

Would need balancing, but there are already some Heavy Carrier accompanying ships.

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Guys, you should all cease and desist from referencing other games companies in this discussion - this is a community for discussion of Spartan Games, not company x, y or z. This is set out in the T&Cs of use, and all of your points can be made without the need for specific references - Thanks

Thank you for dropping in just to point this out, while refraining from providing an answer to this topic's valid question.

An official answer would be much appreciated!

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I have to confess that I bought one starter box with the expectation that I'll be able to fill out those T2-squadrons, either by blister (i.e. one hull, two upgrade pieces each for Terran&Dindrenzi, Aquans&Directorate, Sorylians&Relthoza) or by having the parts available from the Spartan store. But I'm also aware that this might take some time, as it usually does with Spartan. In short: I knew what I was getting into, and the resolution of that problem is not a pressing concern to me. I still have so much other stuff to paint. :lol:

 

Really not sure why this decision was made to be honest. I'm sure Neil will offer an explanation in due course.

My head-canon is that Spartan decided on the 40 pound price point and then looked how many models they could put into that box. I'm pretty sure I remember player feedback that the RotO-starter is too expensive for an impulse buy, so I'm guessing that's why they went with the far lower price (I think it's half a RotO?).

 

@Frans:

You having to buy escorts for 50 T1s is ... well, I'm going to call it a luxury problem. Yes, it's expensive, but it's also not something that happens every day, is it?

Also: I can't believe that getting a discount when buying in larger, pre-sorted quantities (e.g. in a boxed set instead of single models) is a concept that is so far removed from everything that you experienced in life. Sometimes that is very inconvenient to a minority of customers, and in this case it hit you, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. In general I agree that some of Spartan's boxed sets are ... less than optimal, but they are changing their approach to that. Look at the upcoming Xelocian release as an example.

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@Frans:

You having to buy escorts for 50 T1s is ... well, I'm going to call it a luxury problem. Yes, it's expensive, but it's also not something that happens every day, is it?

Also: I can't believe that getting a discount when buying in larger, pre-sorted quantities (e.g. in a boxed set instead of single models) is a concept that is so far removed from everything that you experienced in life. Sometimes that is very inconvenient to a minority of customers, and in this case it hit you, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. In general I agree that some of Spartan's boxed sets are ... less than optimal, but they are changing their approach to that. Look at the upcoming Xelocian release as an example.

 

Don't worry, I'm perfectly aware that buying in larger quantities is cheaper.

 

I'm also aware that changing the rules during the game, to the benefit of new players, and the detriment of those who supported you from the start, isn't a nice thing to do.

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Changing the rules?

Is this a reference to the rumoured FSA 3.0?

You can't mean the highly discussed Firestorm Taskforce, because that's not a rules change. It is a different Game.

I have Taskforce, I have mixed feelings over if I will play it or not. But neither Taskforce nor a Rumoured FSA 3.0 can stop me from enjoying FSA 2.0. My group will play whichever games we like with whatever house rules we want for as long as we like.

Always remember, It's Your Game.

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I think Spartan was going for a pricepoint starter more than an optimal build. 2p starters for them used to be $140usd but it looks like the new plan is closer to $70-80usd. Which honestly is great over here from what I've seen as that's close to a single new release current gen videogame rather than two. Once split it gets even better. Makes me wonder what the next Planetfall starter will look like but the concept works well for new to mini-game players... for now. The obvious problem is us current mini-game players that are instinctively planning a list we won't be able to build for months.

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In my opinion only putting 2 cruisers in was a disastrous mistake :(

 

It was. It prevented me from buying any of the boxes initially and now that the game doesn't seem to progress it is highly unlikely that I will ever buy one. The Taskforce release seems very rushed and not well thought out, especially considering that the models apparently have quite different roles/weapon loadouts in both games which means that it doesn't feel like a fast-paced Armada but like two completely different games where you can use the new models as PROXIS in the other game. Additionally, the design of the Directorate models (and others) is so radically different that they don't fit in with the rest of my fleet.

 

Spartan should have statted at least the models of the Armada patrol fleet boxes before the launch of Taskforce and then made the rules free to download.

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Apparently ALOT of promised features were cut to make the game playable and it's still supposed to make FSA look like Taskforce. Granted some people want that. Also it's supposed to make GW games look affordable.

Also granted, everything may change.

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Imagine if GW handed all manufacturing and design control to Forgeworld... and ofcourse fired anyone resembling sane in marketing and sales that would have mentioned the super prohibitive new pricing.

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I think the issue is, frankly, you're not the target audience. Having read through the rules and played several games I can backup Neil's original statement. Taskforce was written to bring in non-wargamers and a fastplay system. The secondary and I think unintentional use is MASSIVE games. 5k+ games can be run through in the time 1500 point FSA games take, making "bring everything" games not out of reason. Most of the changes (the chart not withstanding) are just Halo or Planetfall rules being brought in. Movement is straight out of Halo and the force org is some mutant hybrid of Pf and Halo. Which mentioning Halo rules in brings up another point. Yeah they could have tweaked Halo; swapped back to normal d6's, dropped the unusual hero system for TAC cards, made odd movement trays to simulate the Halo force org, etc. But I think 343 would have a cow as something tells me there is a "cannot be compatible" clause in their agreement. I mean I like the Halo rules a bit, but I see exactly what they wanted with TF and why they likely didn't copy-paste them.

Cyb3r and my main shop of 4½ years seems to be closing. Thankfully another shop asked us to startup Firestorm for them. The new store is... a culture shock. Ex. 40k for Treefort(our old store) there was a general 1500pt minimum, Anime-zing that's what the player with the largest force owns! Their jaws nearly hit the floor when I told them I had single models leftover from when I quit that were more points than their avg gamesize. They currently only have 2 4'x6' tables, the rest are 3'x7' or 3' square. Most of their game sales are cards and models are Gundams. This is the environment that I believe Taskforce and likely Planetfall will thrive in. Long games have to be big to keep people interested and small games need to run on 3' tables. Taskforce hits that actually quite well.

TLDR: Taskforce is for newbs and fastplay when time limited or force overloaded.

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In retrospect, I think I should have bought the Reinforcement box rather than the dual starter box.

 

Mainly because it's a fact it will take an unknown time before I see the individual blisters/rules for playing the other ships in Taskforce/tournament sets. So effectively, I can only play with Armada because it's the game that has the damn complete rules.

 

I also think it was a very bad move from Spartan Games - they knew they don't have the logictics to follow rules for that many games at once. They take too much time to release them and now the Hype is gone. Having both Taskforce and Armada is crippling, because it means they have to test the next releases for both games and edit the rules in a shorter window of time so that they are available when the miniatures are.

 

We saw that problem with Planetfall, it shouldn't have been a surprise to me that it would become the same way (if not worse) with Taskforce.

 

And yet it was. I guess I can be pretty naive even at my age. :(

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Not sure if its been discussed before ...

 

But wouldn't a simple solution that addressed the full tier 2 issue, plus made the game a more compelling buy for new players (and existing!) be simply to create another FS Taskforce core box set, which included:

 

(1) An additional Tier 2 cruiser - extra incentive for existing Taskforce users to buy into the new box set rather than simply re-using other FS Armada models (when the rules ever show up for other models ... hint hint :) )

 

(2) Some big Tier 1 hitters as new modular pieces - say the ability to convert any two ships in the box to a Battleship, Dreadnought or Heavy Carrier design?

 

(3) Maybe a new set of models like Gunships to round out a fleet

 

So for every starter box plus "new core set", you'll have a complete battle force ready to go, and ready to be complemented with FS Armada models - when the rules ever show up ... hint hint again :) 

 

 

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I think a simple solution would be for Spartan to get the "base module" for the cruisers onto their store. This would be perfect for both building that last cruiser in the starter set, and increases the value of the reinforcement box.

I think the problem might be that certain models have more components than others, (terrans only need a single part, dindrenzi need 2), but this comes down to how the molds are designed.

However, a pack of 4 would be ideal, as this still means people who want to field more squadrons can go for the reinforcement set (as I will be soon) but then allows you to get to a full 9 cruisers and 12 frigates for about £60-70 (assuming you go halves on the starter set with a friend), allowing for a T1 box/ship or 2, and still be around £100. Seems like a really decent path from FSTF starter box to patrol fleets and beyond for both FSTF & FSA.

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I have 2 Terran Taskforce cruisers (1 which can be used as a Harpoon) and 2 Dindrenzi Taskforce cruisers (1 of which can be used as a Decurion) so if anyone wants an extra cruiser then PM me and we will sort something out. 

 

full cruiser squadrons for the win!

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On the Armada side of things I've been trying to justify the two player Taskforce box to try out the rules but the short-squad issue has kept me from it since I mostly play Armada and don't want short squads.

Until now. Had to do some figuring but I think I've worked it out except for the Frigate shortage.

On the Terran/Dindrenzi box, your single Harpoon can serve as a dedicated battle cruiser accompaniment, or use the pair of light cruisers as cheap Carrier accompaniments. Or use the two lights with a regular Cruiser upgrade to the squadron as a hard hitting Tier 3 in a Battle Fleet level game.

On the Dindrenzi side the single Decurion can be used as a dedicated accompaniment to a Nausicaa or better yet a Praetorian (triple Torpedoes, linked gunracks, more wings), or the pair of Velites as Carrier accompaniments.

Either way the later purchase of a Reinforcement box gives you the full squadrons an Armada player wants, leaving your short-squad to use as accompaniments.

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That's probably to real way forward, and may have even been the intention. But don't quote me on that:s

Frigate shortage? Didn't They get changes from 5 to 6 before launch? Nevermind, just had a look at the stat cards.

Now I've got a TF rulebook (from the deal on the store a while back) I'm actually wanting to give it a go. I had an intro game from a player at my LGS and did like the pace. I think most are waiting for a PDF version and more stats to come out before trying out TF. 

I know your busy, Spartan, but distractions can snowball!

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