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S.Neil

Discussion Thread for the new Aquan Prime Stats

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If SRS as the main offensive weapon of the Carcinus was the design intent, could I suggest Quick Launch?

 

You don't need it Chris, as they are a squadron based SRS source they gain "Split Berth" which is basically Quick Launch. You can deploy your SRS tokens within Command Distance.

 

Which is fine :)

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I know this is late, but I spent a lot of time play testing the new ships for all the races with 2 friends over the past 2 weeks and I still wanted to post the feedback.  We got in 12 games (all at 800 points taking copious notes) with various race combinations of fleets containing the new ships vs. fleets containing only existing ships and fleets both containing the new ships.  Unfortunately I came down very sick this past weekend and did not have time to polish and submit our feedback and summary battle reports by the 15th.  I still haven't written up the battle summaries, but here were our thoughts and experiences.

 

General Thoughts

After playing a more than a few games I have found that almost all of the new ships are significantly easier to board than existing ships.  The new ships are boarding liabilities, when even facing non-traditional boarding races like Terrans and Aquans.  Even the traditional boarding race's new ships are boarding liabilities.  For example, based on past precedence Tier 2s normally have at least 2-4 AP.  I understand Light Cruisers are suppose to be between Cruisers and Frigates, but I feel they sacrifice too much for too high a points cost and too easily give up Tier 2 Battle Log - especially in the AP numbers.  Besides the boarding issues experienced with the new ships, the Agile MAR seems to be over costed across the board on the new ships.

 

Light Cruisers

Light Cruisers are a hard sell because they are so fragile and cause you to take a Tier 2 Battle Log hit.  I think these would see more play if they remained Tier 2s, but only gave up Tier 3 BL.  Light Cruisers should also be consistent across the races like other Ship Classes and have 3 HP.  There could be a +1 HP Hard Point or upgrade option for the tougher Races.  Something else to watch out for is the Light Cruiser upgrades turning them into worse normal Cruisers, at which point you would just take a base normal Cruiser.  Also, Light Cruisers for races that can take normal Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers in squadrons of 4, make their Light Cruiser (or Cruiser) squadrons of 3 even worse.  If the Light Cruisers are worse (but cheaper) versions of normal Cruisers that are balanced around squadrons of 4, then the Light Cruiser Squadrons of 3 are even more gimped than normal and much easier to score the same amount of Battle Log points. It would also be interesting if Light Cruiser squadrons could take a Torpedo, Shield, R&D, Shunt, or normal Cruiser as a squadron upgrade.

 

Escort Carriers

I don't know what to think of the Escort Carriers, it feels like they need to be very finely balanced to provide and alternative or supplement to Carriers.  I like how the Dindrenzi Escort Carrier is as tough as their Heavy Cruiser.  I feel like all races Escort Carriers should be as tough as their Heavy Cruiser.  In general I feel that Escort Carriers trade smaller wing capacity, firepower, and point per wing ratio for speed and smaller Battle Log hit.  The escort Carriers are also more difficult to remove, as long as the Carrier doesn't have a Tier 2 accompaniment.  One thing I think all Escort Carriers need is an upgrade or hard point to increase their SRS capacity by 1.  Also, Cruiser squadron upgrades should support both Heavy Cruisers and Escort Cruisers, instead of limiting you to one or the other.  The new Cruiser squadrons that can only take Escort Carrier upgrades don't synergize well at all.  

 

Light Frigates

Light Frigates all seem to have a hard time differentiating themselves from other Frigates and Corvettes for all races.  The Aquan Light Frigate is at least unique with its DR and CR the same, but I don't know if that's a good thing.  Besides being overshadowed by other Frigates and Corvettes, Light Frigates also seem overpriced for what you get.  Given their overlap with existing Tier 3 ships, reducing their price to 10-15 pts may establish their niche.  They could be like the Omnidyne Corvettes at 15 points with either fore or port/starboard weapons.  Another option to make Light Frigates more unique would be to make Elusive Target and/or Agile either standard MARs or upgrade options for Light Frigates.

 

Escort Carrier - Carcinus

  • Why is it not as tough as the Heavy Cruiser?
  • No shields? - Needs both Shield Upgrade and Difficult Target to survive
  • Very vulnerable to boarding with AP1
  • Guns too weak
  • SRS useless once wing is damaged or one escort destroyed - forces you to take bombers
  • Need Deck Crews or additional wing upgrade
  • Don't see ever taking over a Heavy Cruiser that uses same slot
  • Why would I take this in mixed squadrons with new Cruiser class - no synergy
  • In mixed squadrons will only ever take interceptors

Cruiser - Ladon

  • Why is this not a Light Cruiser?
  • Why does it have 3 HP if not Light Cruiser
  • Slower than normal Cruiser and doesn't have Dif Target default
  • No Aft guns, no mines, no torps
  • Stronger Fore guns encourage closing into RB1 - but it's a boarding liability and gives up wasy Tier 2 BL
  • Cannot be taken in squadrons of 4 like normal Cruiser - Gives up Tier 2 BL easier
  • With squadrons of 3 you need max upgrades, - makes it cost the same (or more) as a normal Cruiser but worse
  • Needs extra HP, better guns, squadrons of 4, 

Light Frigate - 

  • Like DR and CR that match
  • Like Elusive Target
  • Not faster than existing Corvettes and only 1 faster than existing Frigate
  • Will never take over Corvette
    • Corvette 5 pts cheaper
    • Corvette 1" faster
    • Corvette has pack hunter - more flexible
    • Corvette has much more close range Firepower 
    • Light Frigate higher DR and Reinforced Hull-front, but 1 less CP
    • Light Frigate has longer range Firepower, but not impressive at all 10/7/6/0
  • Will never take over Frigate
    • Light Frigate is 1" faster
    • Light Frigate is elusive vs difficult
    • Light Frigate has bigger squadron size
    • Cost the same
    • Squadron firepower about the same in primary arc, but Frigate has 3 other arcs and Energy Transfer
    • Frigate has 1 more CR
    • Frigate has 1 more AP and CP

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Not exactly stat question, but can we please stick to one style for a while? I got the new box, cause i did like the frigate models in it, but christ, we went from all the gun gems on the hull to almost none, and some wierd tubey things that I think are supposed to be actual guns now? What the hell?

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Do Terrans have style ADD? I really haven't looked hard enough at them to notice any major points that changed. With Aquans and Relth, the V1 to V2 change is relatively dramatic, and the changes seen here look like they could belong to a completely different faction, removing the "could" for the Relth. Granted, paint two ships the same way and they'll look like they belong together, but still.

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So, I was looking at the new ship stats and I am suddenly a fan of the ladon..

But not as a pure squadron, assuming them being cruisers is a typo and they're ment to be light cruisers, toss a Shiva in there and its got some hitting power, of course this would be really good in 801+ points as they're tier 3 

 

180 points each ship has 2 shields you have 3 hulls 2 with 3 HP and one with 5 and the 4 PD of the gunship helps the Ladons alot (ladons alone)

P/S firepower is 8,10,0,0 (8,8,0,0)

Fore firepower is 14,16,10,4 (12,14,6,0)

with torps of 6,6,6,6 in the any arc (none)

 

so for 45 points you gain a torpedo attack, a much better RB 3 shot and better linked PD by 2 and the gunship is not a "boarding victim"

 

just to save some math a full unit of storms is 35 more points than the above and puts out

p/s 7,12,0,0

Fore 12,15,7,0

Aft 7,10,0,0

Torp 10,10,10,10

 

So what do you guys think is the gunship worth it? I hope to try it this week

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That did catch my eye but I would also want some frigates or corvette on the list still to deal with difficult tartgets

2 of these squads and 2 storm squads is a heck of a core of ships in a battlefleet !all for 760 pointz

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I doubt that's a typo. The "gunships can join light cruiser squadrons" rule exists solely for the new Relthoza and Sorylian ships. The only ones who already had gunships and now got light cruisers are the Sorylians, and the synergy between the Warwolves and the Lucerns is pretty much non-existent. Otherwise the Directorate players will want their Champions to count as light cruisers so that they can be joined by an Annihilation, and that's not something anyone wants, is it? ;)

Face it, the Ladons are cruisers. You may, of course, think the Aquans are weird for calling them that. :D

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When I started collecting Aquans, I decided I wouldn't get Cruisers/Heavy Cruisers (I think the Cruisers are OP).  But after a few games needing to take Destroyers or Assault Cruisers as my maditory Tier 2, I really need a better generalist.

Will the Ladon Cruisers for the bill?

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