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S.Neil

Discussion Thread for the new Terran Alliance Stats

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About the Perseus: I'd probably take the Turret hardpoint and Weapon Shielding, then skirmish at RB3 and hide behind Sector Shielding. Shame that it's Reinforced (Fore), not Reinforced (Port/Starboard), though, that would have made it even easier to "circle" their target with relative impunity. But maybe that's supposed to work with the Shield hardpoint? Sit behind cover at Full Stop, Sector Shielding to the front and lob torpedoes; too much trouble to dislodge, probably, and late game they could brawl a little, maybe (max 10 AD to the sides is nice, 6 AD to the front less so). Would work the same with Reinforced (Port/Starboard), though. Yeah, well, first world problems, overall I'd use them the way they are.

Bottom line: A squadron of three is 135 points. ;)

 

Wayfarers: These are interesting. I can see them filling in for both our frigates in a pinch, with reduced efficiency. I'd probably shunt them and hit two targets pretty hard, then die, like more expensive Missionaries. Because that's hilarious, mostly. :D Or, more realistically, guard the flanks and rear of my fleet from the opponent's reserves.

 

Harpoons: I have to echo the others in this thread, why would I want the Turret hardpoint on these? Even if it was free like the Shield hardpoint they'd still be less brawly than properly set up Teutons (which, even then, aren't super brawly themselves). Also more fragile, which is bad for brawlers. At least that's what I heard. ;) Focused firepower is nice, but only undamaged, which they'll never stay.

I'd probably go with Shield hardpoint (they've got a glass chin like most Terran mediums, so that helps a lot), Torpedo Spook ("Torpedo Cruiser", duh :D) and Decimator Warheads (because those can help make the torpedoes of the rest of the fleet stronger, if the Disorder test fails, and Terrans have a lot of torpedoes); Sector Shielding to the front and slowly advance behind the tougher elements of the fleet. 210 points is a lot, but probably a fair price for these. IMO a bit too specialised for a Patrol Fleet, but I'd have to try them to be sure.

 

Also: Did you notice that you can show which hardpoint you chose by using the appropriate drop-on on your models? I thought that was a Dystopian Wars thing! ^_^

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I hadn't considered using the Harpoons to Decimate and set up the rest of the fleet to pound the **** out of a squadron, but it could really be a force mulitplier if you have nuke torps elsewhere in the fleet.

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Played 800 points Terrans vs Dindrenzi, Border clash. Used a random terrain setup with 'blobs' at least 8" from each other.

Apollo with extra PD, crew and beams.

Teutons x3 with extra mv plus beams. No weapon shielding.

Harpoons x3. Shield and stealth. Nuclear Torps.

3x Armsmen

6!x Wayfarers.

Dindrenzi

Conqueror usual -1 turn, fore torps, remove ablative. DM and HE

3x Secutor

3x Velite

3x and 2x Hammers

4x Stgian

Performance and balance observations.

Stealth plus shielding capability on the Harpoons.. Hard to get to. Output wise 14AD Nuclear on a reasonably maneuverable platform. Deadly! Firepower for direct systems not used much except against some Velites shunted in, due to skulking. Nothing too extreme.

Wayfarers.. Mini Missionaries. Stupidly fast. DR CR low enough to kill relatively easily though. Firepower at X6 each broadside.. 14 optimal or 2x8 RB2. High but not too bad as they'll die quick and lose effectiveness. 20 points each? Unsure as to value.

Overall both ships good. Harpoons hardpoint cost setup is odd! Wayfarers could probably lose sector shielding?

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Actually why does the Harpoon get Shield projector for free? And the extra shield of course. That loadout makes it different from the Teuton due to stealth availability, so a good long range harassment unit. Plus it's guns aren't bad either for later game Shunt defenses and/or mopping up.

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I think that's the way all new terran ships are gonna go, with shield projectors incorporated into either the ship already or as a very cheap upgrade :) Same with beams, thou I would have followed the tyrants blueprint and have the optimal range bands for the main weapons as rb2, but in the case of the new ships turrets its rb1 :wacko:

 

Personally the harpoon isn't for me, its about the cost of a standard cruiser with upgrades, its torp values are virtually the same (it should be higher, or why is it a torp cruiser), the harpoon doesn't have weapon shielding, and it only has 1 ap. 

 

It should probably be standard that all terran capital models have weapon shielding in 3.o. It could be a faction thing, like all collective capital models would get experienced engineers :)

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Yeah or at least have the option to at the right cost for the ship.

It's all subjective but having cruiser options for each faction is good. As long as they fit in with the general racial theme and don't create glaring combo cris'es! Now a Terran player can have four cruiser options each with a different bias. You have to remember the AP weakness on the Harpoon is akin to the Aquan problem. Lower APs but you probably don't need to board with them or won't be boarded haha. It is a weakness on paper though.. As for the Velites.. TL2 2PD and a better FF AD output than Sects IF you're in the correct spot.. Not as easy as it seems! But that's for the Dindrenzi Thread!

The Harpoons went around a debris field when the Velites dropped on them and relied on Torps from a far away Teuton Squad (12AD) to attack them whilst still putting their own torps out at targets in RB4. I don't think Terran players always completely appreciate how nice turret torpedoes are! :-)

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Personally the harpoon isn't for me, its about the cost of a standard cruiser with upgrades, its torp values are virtually the same (it should be higher, or why is it a torp cruiser), the harpoon doesn't have weapon shielding, and it only has 1 ap. 

 

It should probably be standard that all terran capital models have weapon shielding in 3.o. It could be a faction thing, like all collective capital models would get experienced engineers :)

I think the Harpoon isn't meant to fill the role of 'torpedo cruiser' in the Terran line up, rather, it's an alternative to the Artemis. A 'torpedo destroyer' if you will. 14AD Nuclear Torpedoes at max range, with Torpedo Spook, is aimed at the same targets that the Artemis would go after, bunched up Tier 3s and even Tier 2s. 

 

As for Weapon Shielding on all Terran capital ships, bear in mind that the Artemis and the Ares don't have access to Weapon Shielding at all, and they are capital ships in the Terran line up. 

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Every list i am adjusting is seeing the harpoon replacing the artemis. The harpoon is either teamed with the teutons or horizons.

Now the frigates has been a harder choice. I usually run two tier three, armsman and missionary. I tend to be removing the missionaries more when i run horizons and armsman when i run tuetons.

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The ship named torpedo cruiser should really fill the role of torpedo cruiser, other wise it can go take a hike :P

 

The light frigates don't look that appealing either at 20pts each, the directorate version has elusive target...now that's appealing :)

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The ship named torpedo cruiser should really fill the role of torpedo cruiser, other wise it can go take a hike :P

The light frigates don't look that appealing either at 20pts each, the directorate version has elusive target...now that's appealing :)

One Shield and Sector Shielding.

So two possible shields and Difficult Target. Sounds pretty good to me.

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The six strong squadron of Wayfarers took some time to clear out. With three left at end of game (total Drenzi loss..!)

1)Are the Wayfarers 'correctly' armed? Not sure. Being T3s there's not a lot in it. Fast moving Beam broadsider. The beams giving it.. Downside, easily crit hitted so you wont be using those linked beams for long and the Plus (mostly) side, six max in a squad.

Given that Armsmen have broadside beams and a reasonable linkable torp capacity, have one shield, the Wayfarer perhaps is priced right but the Missionary is 5 too much!??

The Harpoons did the destruction job really well. Critical Nuclear hits on T2's three times. When faced by three Velites (totally wrong ships for shunting!) They were able to trade blows somewhat with them but due to their backfield deployment were reasonably easy to drive between terrain. With the turrets they would have done a little better but that's another 'link in'.. so not by much. 12AD Broadside RB2 compared to the Teutons 14 and they're weapon shielded. One thing I noticed is without any MV upgrade possible they're not going anywhere fast. The weapon loadout for these seems ok, even fun. But that Hard point costing issue hmmm.

The Shield Projector paid dividends. 14 AD spooked or Stealth cruiser torpedoes delivered every turn, nasty. 195 points for that. Well worth it. Perhaps needing a cost increase to something! for the shield/projector option.

Hope that's some useful feedback :-)

Extra: The lower cost Teutons worked magnificently with the Harpoons!

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I've put the Harpoons through the paces a couple of times now; first against the Dindrenzi and next against the directorate.  The first game was decent.  Not sure if it's just my luck, but about half the time I use 'torpedo spook' the opponent rerolls their successes and winds up with more than they started with.  Ultimately they did better than the teutons in that same role, but only by about as much as would be expected for increasing the cost of the squadron in that role by 15 pts.  (normally 195 on my teutons, 210 for the harpoons).  
The second game against Directorate was a complete disaster.  The harpoons fired twice on bunched up frigate squadrons and failed to do more than damage half of them.  In turn, they got torn apart by the new Directorate Champion cruisers using gravity weapons.  

Several people have suggested a cost increase; honestly, if they cost any more than they do now I would expect more hull points or better CR values.  

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If the light frigates had 6 dice in rb4 that would be combine fire, not link, I'm sure its they contribute a minimum of one dice to the linking pool but then its worked out as normal, I would love to be wrong however :)

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FSA 2.0 pg. 62:

The Linked Fire Dice Pool is then reduced by HALF
(rounding down) to a minimum of 1 Attack Dice per
additional contributing Weapon System
. The remainder is
added to the initial Attack Dice of the Focus. This provides
the final Attack Dice pool that the Squadron will roll to
perform the attack.

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Great stuff! well then that's interesting, a shame they don't have that on a forward weapon or a turret. But I'm not sure they should be working out more than regular frigate squadron, 120 is just too much for me, when 4 frigates for other factions generally work out at 80 or missionaries 100. 120 is too much for me.

 

All the light frigate's should probably be 15 (with some adjustments) 

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Yep, the Wayfarers get 6AD linked at max range (same on the Perseus if you give them the turret hardpoint, linking turret and broadside). Also, because they have 1AD at RB4, even shooting through asteroid fields and debris fields (provided it's less than 6" depth), you get 6AD (1AD halved, to a minimum of 1AD, is still 1AD as far as the rules are concerned). 

 

As for the NTSC naval classification system... Well, they were bound to mess up one of the new ships, given they have previous (gunship-cruisers, pocket battleships, a dreadnought that is actually a super-battleship...). 

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The six strong squadron of Wayfarers took some time to clear out. With three left at end of game (total Drenzi loss..!)

1)Are the Wayfarers 'correctly' armed? Not sure. Being T3s there's not a lot in it. Fast moving Beam broadsider. The beams giving it.. Downside, easily crit hitted so you wont be using those linked beams for long and the Plus (mostly) side, six max in a squad.

Given that Armsmen have broadside beams and a reasonable linkable torp capacity, have one shield, the Wayfarer perhaps is priced right but the Missionary is 5 too much!??

The Harpoons did the destruction job really well. Critical Nuclear hits on T2's three times. When faced by three Velites (totally wrong ships for shunting!) They were able to trade blows somewhat with them but due to their backfield deployment were reasonably easy to drive between terrain. With the turrets they would have done a little better but that's another 'link in'.. so not by much. 12AD Broadside RB2 compared to the Teutons 14 and they're weapon shielded. One thing I noticed is without any MV upgrade possible they're not going anywhere fast. The weapon loadout for these seems ok, even fun. But that Hard point costing issue hmmm.

The Shield Projector paid dividends. 14 AD spooked or Stealth cruiser torpedoes delivered every turn, nasty. 195 points for that. Well worth it. Perhaps needing a cost increase to something! for the shield/projector option.

Hope that's some useful feedback :-)

Extra: The lower cost Teutons worked magnificently with the Harpoons!

 

 

I've put the Harpoons through the paces a couple of times now; first against the Dindrenzi and next against the directorate.  The first game was decent.  Not sure if it's just my luck, but about half the time I use 'torpedo spook' the opponent rerolls their successes and winds up with more than they started with.  Ultimately they did better than the teutons in that same role, but only by about as much as would be expected for increasing the cost of the squadron in that role by 15 pts.  (normally 195 on my teutons, 210 for the harpoons).  

The second game against Directorate was a complete disaster.  The harpoons fired twice on bunched up frigate squadrons and failed to do more than damage half of them.  In turn, they got torn apart by the new Directorate Champion cruisers using gravity weapons.  

Several people have suggested a cost increase; honestly, if they cost any more than they do now I would expect more hull points or better CR values.  

 

Thanks guys for the feedback!  Keep it coming :)

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