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Biohazard

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So, I'm a pretty decently mostly sort of probably a little bit smart guy, right? I've done a lot of number crunching; I've done a lot of dice rolling; I've done a fair mix of winning and losing. Maybe not recently, but hey, that's neither here or there, right? The thing is, there's a thing I cannot figure out- Whats the deal with Biohazard? I've played games with Bio lists before, and they worked decently well... But I found myself not terribly caring about biohazard and wishing I had spent those points elsewhere. Allow me to delve into why, and then ask if someone has other angles on the matter.

 

Before I get to my premise, let's start by covering two other possible premises, both of which are actually the same premise applied to two different situations. Uh... I can't think of another place to put the word premise in that sentence without messing up its meaning, so moving on. The other two premises are that maybe biohazard is meant to be used with another fleet, as an allied-in perk. Since the only two fleets that can ally in Relthoza are Directorate and Dindrenzi, that's two angles we need to cover before I get to my main point.

 

Directorate have Biohazard out the wazoo already. What would you even do with Relthozan Biohazard at that point? Bio beams have range on Bio primaries, and because Relthozan ships that have access to Bio tend to be Relthoza's boarding ships anywho, barring Shunt Cruisers of course, they tend to be all high-investment picks. Directorate have the advantage of having very purpose-driven vessels, so every ship can be purchased with a role in mind, and consequently any given role can be filled better for cheaper. Unless the Directorate player specifically wanted a heavier, more general-purpose option that can multitask and support both boarding and Biohazarding ships from the base fleet, I don't see it. The Apex and the Brood/Nexus, the Directorate's own Anarchist is going to do it better, faster, hands down. I could see Heavy Cruisers or Battlecruisers, but in both instances I'm not really sure why, for the points, you wouldn't take something else from the home fleet- On a similar hull (down cloaks and up shields) and for far fewer points than a Bio/Boarding Raptor squad (which is in turn fewer points than the HCs), you could run Bio spam Directorate Battlecruisers, kill crew from further away without giving up your defenses in the process, and save a chunk of points for a more minmaxed boarding squad. That's a role Relthozans COULD take, with Assault Cruisers for instance, but otherwise...

 

Dindrenzi... I think it's already been established that Directorate does do Bio spam better and more consistently over the course of a game, so if you were looking to, say, burn capital ship crew so that Hazards start eating through hull, or do some boarding, Directorate is just plain a better place to go. What Relthoza offer Dindrenzi is pools of wing support, later-game offensive options, and broadsides. Directorate can offer these things too, but not to the same degree- no one else is going to get a 4-point interceptor token and its carrier (carriers?) in for cheaper than 100 points, for instance.

 

So, to get to my point, bio is out in other fleets, so its real merits come into play in a Relthoza fleet... theoretically. The problem I see is that almost any time you would Biohazard someone, you could Corrosive them instead and start doing some burn damage. Until you've reduced the target's crew by a significant level, against most fleets all you've really done is the damage. Specifically, look at why Bio works for Directorate- they have range to apply it from the start of the game to the finish, they have other mostly reliable ways of picking apart anti-boarding defenses with Cyberwarfare and ARTs, they don't have to give up their defenses to START applying these effects in serious volume, and they aren't locked in on having Bio on only the upper weight-tiers of ships .(Aside from Destroyers, and I guess technically Vvirrin can have it on Drones and Widows, all Relthozan Bio options sit on Heavy Cruisers and up- Even more of a problem, because aside from Shunt Cruisers and Assault Cruisers, these Biohazard-capable ships are the same pool of ships you are trying to board with) Aside from Destroyers, there just plain isn't a cheap option for Biohazard, nor is there one that can apply it early to set up for later boarding, nor is there one that isn't already partially committed to positioning to board. Which leaves the merits of Biohazard on its own- the biggest of which is the ability to circumvent Wep Shielding. I would argue, in this case, that it is far superior a strategy to attempt to remove entire hulls, rather than attempting to merely weaken them. In this way, the ability to kill, or push forward with killing, targets makes Corrosive a better choice, hands down. On smaller capitol ships, the difference between a reduction in AD because Bio circumvented Weapon Shielding doesn't really compare to the reduction in AD of a whole ship being removed because Corrosive potentially ate that last one or two points of hull. Against Battleships and the like, the argument is a little less seemingly one-sided, but in my eyes it still comes down to if you will need to keep hitting the ship and score enough damage to kill it and in the meantime benefit from it having more reduced power than it normally would, or if an effect will close the gap and end it completely, sooner. Personally, I'd rather take the later option.

 

Thoughts?

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I think its just an option that opens up a different playstyle. I agree that corrsive is more powerful, which being more expensive on the whole you would expect, but biohazard allows you to board ships after killing the crew.

Each crew point reduces the number of successes needed to capture the ship by 2, that's 3 less assault points needed to reliably capture. Hit it twice and its 4 less successes needed.

It's useful to have biohazard if you have a specific plan for it (or if you are fighting weapon shielding and particularly weapon shielded experienced engineers). If your admiral is all about blowing stuff up and melting ships, corrosive is better

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i never buy Biohazard Upgrades for my Directorate, i would buy corrosiv on everything. :D 

in my expirence buying hard into Upgrades to Counter weaponshilding is not worth it, you dont Need to Counter it, most races with weaponshielding have it to get on par with other races weapon Systems (terrans).

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So, the thing is, for decrewing ships Biohazard Primary Broadsides are kind of ****. Your boarding ships tend to be the ones that can take Biohazard, so you are mostly 1: on top of/passing the ship you want to Bio, which you consequently also want to board... So what are you doing? Waiting to weaken a ship so that you can turn around and board it even later? Or 2: turning to broadside, and in many cases killing your advance on your intended boarding target.

At that point, you're better off massing Split Berthed and Quick Launched Assault Shuttles and Drone Repairs and drowning the enemy in 12 AP boarding assaults rather than trying to build up to one or two of them when the fleet is always going to have trouble doing so.

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Since I got my Zenian League fleet guide, I have been tempted to get Relthoza, as their playstyle is like umm...a kind of a fleet of space submarines, but I am holding myself until the Sorylian-Relthoza 2-player box shows up. Yesterday I have been doing some comparations between spiders and lizards and, ship-to-ship wiese Relthozan ships have better broadsides than the famous Sorylians broadsides, so Relthozan, in theory have an slight advantage in ship-to ship combat.... if it weren't because the Sorylian squadron nubmers,which include an extra ship of painfulness.

 

Being said that, Relthozan ships can even the things up by adding Corrosive to their broadsides, making their ships effectively deadlier. I liked hive´s post because it made me find the difference between Directorate Bio and Relthoza Bio. Directorate´s Bio is every weapon, including torps, that let them biohazard anything wthout giving up cloaking (in case of the ships that have cloaks) or other defenses. Most of the Relthozan bio is in their primaries, so, as Hive said  they have to decloak in order to weaken enemy´s ship, so this move could potentially cost the Rel the decloaking ship if the opposing fleet counter attacks.

 

So, IMO, should use biohazard not generally but for a specific task that could bring lots of BL to justify the investment in Biohazard such as capturing a Ghost station or a high-HP Tier 1 (Biohazard also circunvents Imprevious MAR). So unless you want to include some Directorate ships in your fleet, I think is not worth investing on a Bioharzard specialized fleet.

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I just started looking into bio to be able to run assaults being it's a Relth thing to do. My list just posted up today. Bio list is possible with the commander and from my game test game (which was a 3way Oroshan V Relth V Dendrenzi) was effective. The assault cruisers are clutch and even if you don't take the ship the first time around you probably DR'd and shut off pd or added hazards. Directorate can do it better but they are also more one use only. That's what they do and that's it. Where you still have powerful broadsides to back you up plus torps. And the threat of a Brood with 3 wolf escorts throwing a 16ad assault is nothing to shrug off when your low on CP.

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I would agree on most points, but if your fighting terran biohazard is a great way to make their weapon shielding pointless, and degrade their ships at a steady rate, and biohazard will guarantee kill crew, wheras corrosive, may or may not, Again for relthoza, corrosive still trumps most of the time, but bio is a cheap way to counter weapon shielding (which come to think of it, sorylians just got broad access to in the last update)

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