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Wolfchild

Dealing with Yurei Terror ships

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Hey folks,

I've come across a EotBS list fielding 2 Yurei terror ships in 1k.

With that Phase generator meaning always partially blocked and a CR of 9 it's a massive dilemma how much effort to put into it and what to use against them.

I can usually avoid 1 of them for a few turns, but the other will be in my face fast.

Any suggestions?

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Drop mines, then argue. Mines don't attack directly, they roll once then just apply those hits against all models in the area of effect. So you still get your full AD, as you're not attacking the Yurei- The Yurei is just being affected by the hits from the mine explosion. This is of course why I think the generator shouldn't affect Indiscriminate attacks- Indiscriminate is mostly a technical rule just to avoid awkward effects when using AoE attacks such as mines.

 

Alternately, ignore them. I've found that they tend not to do much damage to my fleet if you take out any support they have- 5AP isn't great on its own, and its attacks aren't spectacular either. If you can hurt any of its AP, it's main weapon (terrifying boarding) will be neutralised- then counter board it. Security Posts (4) is good, but if you only need a couple of hits to get past it, it might not be much of an issue.

 

The big issue with the Yurei is that it's balance comes from it being meant to go up against forces with node projector disruption gens, which the CoA don't have access to. Probably worth adding the Aristotle Disruption Gen as a bit of insurance, since it's only a 5pt upgrade. Even if the range does suck and it activates before moving. Whose idea was that, anyway? It makes a good number of generators within the CoA fleet pretty much useless.

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In that case, how does a mine in range of the Yurei detonated by a different model work? Does the Yurei suddenly grant mine protection to nearby models?

 

Hell, how does that even work? "Any weapon firing at this model..." is affected, but mines don't fire at anything, they just explode and assign hits.

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The half dice vs indiscriminate i think represents that it's a "phase" generator, not a cloak.

A cloak would still take full dice on indiscriminate, but if the ship is out of phase, then it would still limit damage from 'in-phase' weaponry/damage.

Annoying as hell but it makes sense.

Thursday was the 1st time I'd ever taken the disruption gen, forgot to use it at 1st, then only got 1 use (forgetting to activate b4 moving tho, while in range at both positions). Much forgetfulness and foolishness.

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I was meaning from a rules perspective, not a fluff one. Rules wise, a mine never fires at a model (in the way that a magazine explosion "fires", or attacks with, 2x the model's HP at everything within 4). It simply explodes, and deals its resultant hits to every model in range. Those AD it has are not assigned to a target, I'm not rolling against any model- the mine is just exploding.

 

I also think that it's totally unreasonable for there to be no way around the generator except one niche option on a ship that is rarely in position to use that option, and for it to ignore indiscriminate- which, as I've said, exists to prevent awkward questions exactly like this one!

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This could be fixed by making it a 'cloaking' generator and allowing indiscriminate hits, maybe make the ship cheaper or boost its weapons to compensate?

I agree 'phase' seems OP. It's supposed to be an experimental prototype ship in the starter box, but there's no limit to the number you can take in a force beyond points.

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On any decent ship, the phase generator would be OP as sin.

BUT... the Yurei is not a decent ship. Mediocre weapons and AP levels for its cost balance out its very very impressive defences. It is a scary boarder... but only once. After it has tried to board something, it is an easy prize.

The disruption gen on the Aristotle might seem like an answer, but honestly if the Yurei is within disruption range of the Aristotle then either the Aristotle has just been prized or is about to be when the Yurei next activates.

Partially blocked renders our already low-dice attacks quite pathetic... except for one! Our dive bombers. Each SAW is partially blocked, so rather than 3 AD they only have 2. So a full squad gets 10 hunter surface bomb AD, +2 for swarm tactics. This should crit it handily.

So with all these facts combines, I would be tempted to try dive bombing it to cause a crit (reduced AA, possibly reduced AP or other crippling problem) and bait out its boarding using a battlecruiser or hyperbius (some quite valuable target that is, none the less, expendable) followed by boarding it myself.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "ZOMG YUREI OP NERFPLS!!11!1". Facing the Yurei leaves me quite underwhelmed- it's more like a mini-Diophantus. Incredibly tough, but not that powerful on the offense.

I just think that the number questions the generator raises is has more effect than the model it's on. If I face one of these, I know that there will be at least one awkward rules question during the game.

 

I'm very sad to see that drones are still our best response to something like this, even after the nerfs. Drone spam sucks and is still the best option we have in many cases, because the moment a target gets remotely tough, our gunnery struggles greatly. Especially since Primary Turrets, our greatest AD generator outside drones, suffer from not having the utility that E-turrets do. There aren't as many primary target painters (and many that exist are almost useless *cough* Aristotle *cough*), they degrade incredibly quickly, and their munitions type is circumstantial at best (I think it's had an effect once in all my time playing CoA in 2.0). The only model I can think of that would always use Primary Turrets is the Prometheus, and the only one where it's an actual choice is the Cleomedes. For all others, the only reason I might not use them is E-turrets being a paid upgrade that I can't afford. Hell, the Archimedes is a model where I would never, ever use Primary Turrets- E-turrets are mathematically always better.

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I would add Platos to the list of good primary turret ships. They link to sufficiently high power that I think they outclass the energy turret version, and I think the model has more utility up close where it can use all its weapons and its elite crew. Damage degradation is also less of a problem since the large number of turrets are spread over 3 hulls.

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Keeping this thread on topic

@Thamos How do 5 SAS Bombers half their dice, then combine their individual totals?

Surely u add up the combined AD pool +2 swarm tactics, then apply Partially blocked? That would leave 9AD, not 12, assuming none shot down by AA6.

What am I missing?

Regarding boarding the Yurei - the phase gen gives it Security posts 4, combined w AA 6, boarding it not an attractive option.

Even though it only has 5 AP the terror tactics do a number on u...

It only has to prize 1 large/massive to get all it points back n more, esp 1 with SV100 etc.

You say if it gets inside 8" then I've lost the Aristotle, but I don't see any solid suggestions (past dive bombers) for removing the threat.

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Too be honest I agree with Sebenkos first idea of using Mines. Even due they still halve their AD, using 3 Ptolemy's to block off it's path really works. I used it once with a pretty good effect. The Ptolemy's move forward in Stratospheric height. When they are close by, drop them to obscured and drop your mines in his path. The total linked AD will be 14AD, halfed will be 7AD with High Payload. Meaning you still score and average of 8 hits resulting in a critical. Keep the Ptolemy's in his area to keep dropping mines. If he is evading the mines, use Frigates or Corvettes of your own to detonate them. It is expansive but if your really want it dead then just do it!
Otherwise just ignore it, out manoeuvre it, use Orbs to keep it contained. I sometimes use the Alpha orb to block it's paths with portals. Place one portal in his pathway and the other one in an island. Then he must change course and use the Dilation Field on him to half HIS AD on attacks. You can also use the Dilation Field to have a good boarding chance. Deal some damage to reduce AA, use the Dilation field to half his AA in additional and then just board with Corvettes or High AP models. Yes you will lose probably due to Security Posts 4 and 5 AP BUT you will deal some damage and if you keep assaulting him with AP he will  collapse. Assuming that he will have between 1-3 AA when boarding you will lose 2 AP from the 10 Corvettes. 8 will land and you will score an average of 6-8 hits. Meaning that 2-4 AP die from on the Terror Ship. Do this again with another corvette squadron or Zenos (as Zenos can also be used good in short range) and you will have it, prize the model for more points and from this point his Phase Generator is down (if not mistaking due to the successful board). You will have additional points and if your opponent is steadfast on retaking the terror ship you just blast it apart before he can even re-board it. That is what I do with it.

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@Thamos How do 5 SAS Bombers half their dice, then combine their individual totals?

Surely u add up the combined AD pool +2 swarm tactics, then apply Partially blocked? That would leave 9AD, not 12, assuming none shot down by AA6.

What am I missing?

 

Partially blocked halves your initial dice.  So you halve each weapon and then link. 

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^ this.

Each SAW in the SAS has 3 AD as their weapon, which combine fire to form the final attack pool.

Partially blocked halves the AD of each weapon, not the attack.

Therefore each SAW's 3AD is halved to 2AD, then combined to get the final pool (which we then add two to for swarm tactics) to get 12 AD (from a full squad).

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Thanks Thamoz - I hadn't realised Partially blocked affected each weapon's AD and not the AD pool. All there on p60-61, doh! Massive difference.

Meaning my 3 Plutarchs can get 13AD at RB1 after being partially blocked. Awesome :)

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@Projectmanhatten5 That's an incredibly expensive way to tackle one ship that appears to use half a fleet to tackle just one enemy ship. I get that it can work, but it's so demanding that it will leave the rest of the fleet exposed and under strength.

I have to resort back to a hopefull Plutarch strike and bombers.

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