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UniversalHead

Scoring Points Confusion

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I hate to sky drop into these forums with a whinge, but this has got to be one of the worst rulebooks I've ever read, and IMHO it needed a proper pass by a professional copyrighter. The inconsistency of terminology, for a start, is madness.

 

Anyway, in the winning section, it says 'a player scores TVPs for the following' and then describes two situations, one of which talks about receiving Logistics Points (huh?). So to confirm:

 

- a player reduces his ZHT by the tactical value of models he destroys

- a player reduces his ZHT by the tactical value of objectives he captures

 

Is this right? Because the objective is to get your ZHT to zero first, right? Which is confusing, since it talks about scoring points. I have no idea...

 

Thanks for the newbie help! I'm working on a rules summary which I hope will be far clearer than this rulebook (and fits everything on 3 sheets). :)

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I believe i found two locations of it, however all other sections that detail Disorder / Compulsory actions confirm that it turns into a Damage Marker. 

 

Looks like something that went wrong when it went to the printer / online editor. 

 

HP certainly means Hull Point, but should actually say Disordered Squadron damage allocation. 

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What went wrong is that the rules changed and no one edited or proofed them properly, thus leaving a meaningless acronym floating in an important part of the rules, not to mention a whole lot of inconsistent terminology which even the (now 2 year old) errata didn't pick up on! This is my first Spartan game and while I love the figures, I'm have to say I'm very unimpressed by the rules writing. Having poorly written rules results means less customers - Spartan should really invest some money on a copywriter and editor next time.

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This is rather consistent with what I have seen from most of the first version rules.

 

I've never seen such serious errors in any game short of a translation. But the least they could do is point out all the errors in the errata, which no one's updated since Dec 2014.

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I'm of the thought process, as I've said something to the tune of before, that the issue is we ironed out most of the rule kinks a year ago on this forum. The kicker is finding the answers... This is where the out of date FAQ comes in. Post FAQ we got an updated PDF Rulebook, 85% of the remaining ambiguities were already understood to the majority of players. Or atleast the vocal ones. No resources were thrown at doing another FAQ or book update as there was little reason for one at the time and a rapid release schedule was waiting. As of late 2015 we're finding that there is new blood, one can't find an old answer on these bloody forums as every post has a vague title or the answer is to a related question to the primary thread, and now a new update is needed... rest assured we're combing the mountain of text, we'll get things straightened out.

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MaxToreador - 

I don't know if you work for Spartan Games or not, but here's my perspective (if it's interesting, otherwise ignore!) - I'm a brand new customer who has never bought a Spartan game before. I buy the Planetfall starter set for NZ$140, and I get a rulebook riddled with inconsistencies and errors. And not just spelling errors, but serious confusion - inconsistent terminology and leftover acronyms, for example.

 

Luckily I'm an experienced gamer, so I go get the latest PDF of the rules online, and the FAQ. The errors are all still in the PDF version, and the FAQ obviously just updates the earlier version of the rules (because slabs of text from the FAQ are in the rules version I have). Other errors are ignored, and the FAQ is years old.

 

Here my opinion - don't rely on your existing old player base, and put effort into getting the rules properly written and free of errors. I've just made a rules summary that gets all the rules into 3 pages and removes the inconsistencies, and it took me a couple of weeks of putting in an hour or two here and there. It's not that hard. There's no excuse for a company to not put the effort in to write good rules, no matter how busy they are with new releases, because a bad experience with rules will put new users off the game, and worse, discourage them from buying other Spartan games.

 

I don't mean to be a pain or a nitpicker, I love the figures and am looking forward to playing the game and getting into it. But this stuff is basic stuff - get the rules right, and don't sell people games with rules full of inconsistencies and poor, unproofed writing, and don't expect them to hunt down answers in forums. Make the game easy for people to play and enjoy, and they will buy more stuff. Everybody's happy! :)

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I'm only want to add one thing, is needed to catch Spanish market find one distributor who can make an official traduction of core rules like Malifaux or Warmachine did before (Infinity not count because is spanish corp.) We are like russian only few of us can read english rules understanding the game and that is not enough to reach the business mass. Dropzone Commander was more spread and difussion only for language stuff, their game is worst, their miniatures are worst too but people can read it and understand it easily and buy it. I dont know if Spain is interesting for this company in business terms but my tip is please work in a translation. Dont read this with angry im only want to help to spread this amazing game here and better tool is that one.

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Planetfall's rules presentation doesn't help with Spartan's somewhat undeserved reputation for "beta first edition rules". I say somewhat undeserved because the Halo rules are pretty tight, so progress is being made. Anyway, Planetfall is such a cool game (once you've wrapped your head around the rules) and it deserves a rulebook fix-up. Some will get on their moral high horse and say "Told you so!" about the above-mentioned reputation, but whatever.
 

 

I'm only want to add one thing, is needed to catch Spanish market find one distributor who can make an official traduction of core rules like Malifaux or Warmachine did before (Infinity not count because is spanish corp.) We are like russian only few of us can read english rules understanding the game and that is not enough to reach the business mass. Dropzone Commander was more spread and difussion only for language stuff, their game is worst, their miniatures are worst too but people can read it and understand it easily and buy it. I dont know if Spain is interesting for this company in business terms but my tip is please work in a translation. Dont read this with angry im only want to help to spread this amazing game here and better tool is that one.

 

I'm not a Spanish speaker, but I agree that a Spanish translation would really help gain traction (as well as a full German translation, too). I'm not sure if Spartan would have the resources for that, or who they could even outsource it to if it were to come to that, but reaching Spanish speakers would only help the game. Indeed, why would other companies release Spanish rules if it doesn't matter?

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UniversalHead, no I don't work for Spartan.... Technically. I'm a Vanguard and test several of their games. Which comes to the point, Spartan is exceedingly small. At my last understanding like less than 10 employees small. They rely ALOT on volunteers (like me and the other Vanguards/Playtesters) and community feedback here on the forums for the more people intensive tasks. The break occurred here I believe. We got 2 back to back updates, FAQ then PDF. During that time the majority of the vocal player base got the confusions down. Then about 1 month after the PDF dropped the posts here in rules became mostly about rare and special situations, things that might go in an FAQ/Rule Update one day but weren't common and therefore not pressing. So rule feedback was dead, there was little noticeable need for a new rulebook/FAQ compared to other tasks. Planetfall resources appear to have went to playtesting, modeling, and releasing new helices. And all was well for a little over 6mos, till the playerbase suddenly expanded and the new blood such as yourself pointed out that we now have a need to update. The problem, now the speeding bullet train has to switch tracks and the map of the yard is lacking. We have almost EVERY tiny issue with the rules spelled out here on the forums... from a year ago, buried in 100+ post threads, nearly all with titles like "Some Questions." Time consuming is an understatement. Most of us old dogs know the 'forum errata' by memory, we just have to remember that it IS errata/an FAQ. Most of us didn't realize how hard it is to find the answers till you all started asking for 'proof'...

 

As I said in my previous post, as someone who has a peek behind the curtain, these things ARE being fixed. Formalizing the 'forum errata' and updating the rule doc in the downloads section has been a priority for a little while now. This just takes time and it needs to be right and solid this go around.

 

Málagamer, maybe after they get the aforementioned rules issues cleared up Spartan can look into it.

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HI MaxToredor - I completely understand your points and what you're saying. By the way, by 'proofing' I mean in the graphics design sense (I'm a professional graphic designer) which generally means having proofs (ie printouts) made and checking them thoroughly over and over by a group of people until all errors and poorly expressed concepts are eradicated - all before going to the final expense of actually printing anything. It's a vitally important step that is all too often glossed over in this age of fast printing and PDF updates.

 

I understand what you say about fiddly FAQ questions, and can understand they would take a long time to track down and list. I'm repeating myself now and won't say any more after this, but I'm referring to the basic rulebook and its egregious errors, some of which I've already mentioned. That can be easily fixed, and should be fixed, straight away, and a new PDF posted on the website. There's just no excuse for not doing that, because it could be done quite quickly. Putting off fixing this most basic error is just a sign of unprofesssionalism, and will result in losing players and therefore money. I, for example, am now feeling discouraged from looking at other Spartan Games because I know the rules are suffering from such low quality control.

 

Anyway, I've almost finished my summary and I hope new and old players alike will find it useful. I'll post here when it's done. Thanks for listening to me whinge! I've been a graphic designer my whole life so these things stick in my craw a bit. :)

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Malifaux has have a Spanish translation for years before they decided to try the official translate of their first book. They have a "solid" player base for this.

In case of Warmachine... in the old good times they translate all their books, but with the new edition that changed... I supose they have a good reason for that.

Even the bigger company doesn't translate all their books to spanish, normally just the "cheap" rulebooks and keep the big-lore-ones without spanish version.

Don't get me wrong, I'd also like very much having the PF rulebook in spanish, but it's very far IMHO.

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@Zebo: Well I tried to avoid mentionate other companies scores and goals all as I can here, because I dont like to take liberties at other man home without his permission, but I need to explain my point.

 

My point about Warmachine is, MK1 edition was taken by a distributor who raised a lot prices making  1$ -> 1€ currency exchange  in times when GW was strong and have a solid game and community. Even so, it was multiple redoubts of players spread for all the country. When GW raises  their RRPP and neglect his game quality was just the moment when Warmachine starts to shine again because their prices in that moment was ok and MK2 edition was and is a good strategy game, and people turn into their boat litlle by little and redoubts will turn into communities and today even with higher prices that GW games and economichal "crisis" time, people buy their miniatures, so spanish new distributor performed a PDF format translation in first place and now is just working to launch a physical one.

 

I bought last week Malifaux 2nd edition Core Rulebook in spanish on paper edition, and Malifaux have not the Warmachine background, was more simple, the spanish distributor (Diacash) though with an official translation he can grow their profit and did it, and I know a new 15 guys new malifaux community just appears 2 weeks later than book appears, here only in my city and I think in other could be happen the same.

 

But I'm not saying you have to launch a paper book, I only mean Spanish is 2nd most speaked language in the world just behind of English. Canada, USA, all South America, Spain, some Asia countries,  have a highly number of Spanish speakers, so if you make 1 translated into Spanish PDF you are reaching millions of potential customers with and +/-GBP50-100  investment (Dont know how many cost translate 150-200 pages). Doing so, you will announce your product to a million of new potential customers, only need 5 guys inside of these people who buy something to recover your money, everything else will be profit.

 

That is my point of view, Im sure reality will be more complicated for sure, but sometimes people are not aware of real global world than we live now. Where little actions can bring immenses consequences.

 

I have to say i'm not fluent at english so dont read this with angry, is only an explanation of my thinking, like a personal opinion :) :) :)

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I'm also spanish, and my English isn't as good as I'd like, so ain't gonna feel bad xD.

What spanish community needs is a fanmade rulebook. I've been thinking about that for a couple of weeks, but I've the feeling of a new version of the rulebook coming soon (things like the Sectored Armour MAR in flying vehicles when they don't need it with te current rules, the need of a nerf for the Cloaked MAR...) Sadly, Spanish haven't any meet point where exchange or argue, out of a pair of blogs, so this is a little hard to do.

In any case, if I recive any new (no, the rulebook is not gonna change, go ahead with the translation/yes, wait a couple of months and you will have a new rulebook ante then you can do the translation), I'll try to do something.

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Hey UniversalHead! I see a link for your Planetfall rules summary on your site, but it gives me a 404 error. I love all of your board game reference materials, and as someone who's just now dabbling with Planetfall I'm sure your Planetfall guide would be a huge help. Is it just a linking error, or did you run into some sort of issue with the summary itself?

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I'm also spanish, and my English isn't as good as I'd like, so ain't gonna feel bad xD.

What spanish community needs is a fanmade rulebook. I've been thinking about that for a couple of weeks, but I've the feeling of a new version of the rulebook coming soon (things like the Sectored Armour MAR in flying vehicles when they don't need it with te current rules, the need of a nerf for the Cloaked MAR...) Sadly, Spanish haven't any meet point where exchange or argue, out of a pair of blogs, so this is a little hard to do.

In any case, if I recive any new (no, the rulebook is not gonna change, go ahead with the translation/yes, wait a couple of months and you will have a new rulebook ante then you can do the translation), I'll try to do something.

 

If you dare to start a fanmade translate I join you Zebo!  :)

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