Jump to content
Vedar

Firestorm Armada 3.0 headed our way?

Recommended Posts

Ever wondered what would happen when those Torpedoes arive at their intended target?

 

The whole concept sounds cool, but when I try to visualize it, after realizing that by just slamming into the target the G-forces alone would already liquefy your troops, I end up somewhere between some German paratroopers trying to board a B-17 Flying Fortress in mid air over Schweinfurt, a bunch of US marines in a C-47 trying to land aboard Akagi during Midway, and a platoon of British marines in dinghies trying to board Bismarck at Denmark Strait.

 

So what I end up with is something so ridiculous it will effortlessly sink any suspension of disbelief I might still manage to create while playing Firestorm Armada in the blink of an eye.

 

And as a result I really really don't need boarding to be a part of FA 3.0, but the chances of that going to happen are pretty close to zero of course... :(

 

   I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the intent is to unilaterally dock with the target, not simply "slam into" it. Yes you want to get there quick but there's no reason to go full thrust right into the hull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the intent is to unilaterally dock with the target, not simply "slam into" it. Yes you want to get there quick but there's no reason to go full thrust right into the hull.

I'm inclined to agree. I also think that applying 21st century knowledge to a game based hundreds of years into our future is not necessarily a good idea. I could probably come up with half a dozen sci fi explanations for a brute force impact not killing the occupants of a specialised boarding vehicle if I put my mind to it. Some sort of gravity altering harness, inertial dampeners or some other mcguffin technology. Simply put humanity is in its infancy when it comes to scientific knowledge.

Ultimately I imagine small craft which decelerate prior to impact, "land" on the hull and start cutting.

At the same time I don't necessarily see it as a practical form of offensive attack (unless it's a stealth mission of some kind) high likelihood of casualties for minimal gain and realistically its more likely to happen in the aftermath of a battle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only boarding aspect I find hard to swallow is the Assault Shuttles 're-arming' after an attack run. 

 

So a long range, huge starship only has enough marines for a single (usually) boarding action, but those shuttles just load more guys like torpedoes? Where the heck are they coming from! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

   I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the intent is to unilaterally dock with the target, not simply "slam into" it. Yes you want to get there quick but there's no reason to go full thrust right into the hull.

 

PD systems built to intercept high speed torpedoes/missiles will make mince meat of anything closing at the considerably slower speeds needed to make a (crash) landing a survivable event.

 

And getting there in one piece is just the start of it, once you get inside that hostile totally enemy controlled hightech environment the real problems start.

 

After the enemy invades section 17B it would be real fun to increase the artificial gravity in that section to 3G, quickly switch polarity a couple of times, and then go in to remove those bags of broken bones.

 

Or switch of the inertial dampeners in 17B and pull a couple really tight 100G+ turns, after witch you can send in the cleaning party to literally mop up the enemy.

 

Or use section 17B as a temporary heat sink for your shield system, after witch you can send in that cleaning party to hoover up the ashes.

 

I could go on like this for ages…

 

And afterwards do it al over once again, but this time with the home team actually shooting back.

 

Boarding an operational enemy starship is simply a very very bad idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's that easy to manipulate your own ship's environment then that would make your own ship extremely vulnerable to hacking. We gave to assume attack and defense keep relatively in pace. Torpedos use speed to elude PD shuttles use flak, chafe, and jamming systems to make targeting more difficult.

The difference between standards boarding and SRS boarding is probably a combination of different shuttles being used and the ability to refit and rearm those shuttles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's that easy to manipulate your own ship's environment then that would make your own ship extremely vulnerable to hacking.

 

LOL, if it's that easy to “hack” an enemy ships systems then they better not equip it with things like weapons to prevent it from blowing up its buddies, or a reactor to prevent it from blowing up itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One assumes the various races use artificial gravity. Would be a simple vase off applying a short by high intensity artificial gravity field to your boarding craft at either launch or impact to counteract the G-force experianced at such times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One assumes the various races use artificial gravity. Would be a simple vase off applying a short by high intensity artificial gravity field to your boarding craft at either launch or impact to counteract the G-force experianced at such times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More likely that ships don't have that level of control. That level of control probably increases the costs of ships exponentially even if available. If you have control to do that at specific points you can likely knock out the controls for that at those specific points.

 

As for the speed of the boarding torps, you could accelerate to the speed of a normal torpedo, then zero your speed once past the PD effective range. Either that or perhaps each marine uses their own pod, so it's sheer volume that gets through.

 

Essentially any techno-babble reason against it there could be a techno-babble reason for it.

 

I don't buy the rearming shuttles though... we are talking about rearming AP value which is men. (or spiders, or fish, etc... ;)). If a Dreadnought only carries enough to board once, it doesn't make sense that a shuttle can do it multiple times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having complexweapons and defensive is why things like criticals happen. The bottom line is that we have to assume that the mechanics reflect the setting which is not necessarily grounded in the same understanding of the universe we now have. A general from 2000 yrs ago would be mistified by modern war assuming something would be less common while finding other things preposterous and assuming they could do it better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some ships may use 1 way trooper capsules. Other may use shuttles but even though they have the troops the don't have the ability to replace ablative plating and sensor decoys on the shuttles meaning they'd never survive another run through the "gauntlet".

Like CP, AP is an abstraction of abolity to perform a boarding assault. Depending on the ship it can be a combination of many different elements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm cool with abstraction, but no matter what AP covers, why could a shuttle rearm while a capital ship doesn't have enough of said material to rearm?

 

This isn't the end of the world for me, I just find it weird because the larger ships can't do something repeatedly that tiny vessels can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting but I definitely think something like only letting certain ships assault could be very interesting. Most would never be fitted out for it, only having defensive troops on board and it could further enhance a 'boarding' race like Ba'Kash or the Veydreth. It would also allow all factions to have specific Assault ships further diversifying the lists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty much a fluke unless you are chucking 12+ AD for a boarding assault anyway given how well most factions can defend against it. Especially given the prominence of SRS and Escorts (the latter not so much)

 

I remember capturing an Aquan battleship turn 2 with 3 Veydreth Assault Cruisers though...good times B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve i see it that the capitol ship lacks pods to board more then once not that they lack the personnel. That is why they retain their AP even after they board. Srs shuttles are a resource that can be reused.

This, in addition, any given SRS is likely going to take up more space than the physical ship for munitions, fuel, ect. There's no real reason to assume that Assault shuttles aren't similarly prepared for their role. Sure, physical space is a problem, but we're assuming that any downgrade a ship suffers to accomodate such things would be large enough to be representable in the rules. It may very well be that any given Terran carrier toting Assault shuttles has far more spartan (hahaha I am so clever) accomodations, relative to the average carrier of its class, in order to accomodate the additional troopers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty much a fluke unless you are chucking 12+ AD for a boarding assault anyway given how well most factions can defend against it. Especially given the prominence of SRS and Escorts (the latter not so much)

 

I remember capturing an Aquan battleship turn 2 with 3 Veydreth Assault Cruisers though...good times B)

 

Hmmm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I'm late to the party, but after reading the last 22 pages of posts I have a few things to add...

 

 

What I'd like to see (in no particular order):

 

1. Movement

Streamline movement. I like the turning templates, but it makes turning difficult when things are tight. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'd be willing to try a move-pivot-move system (using the current turn limits), or something similar. I find that games tend to take too long, and the fiddly movement is part of the problem. I found that a laser-level helped me significantly speed up moving my ships with fixed-fore weapons (I could verify my arc of fire easily).

 

2. AD Pool calculations/Linked Fire

a.) Use the same range-band for all the ships linking, my preference being the RB of the farthest ship linking. 

b.) Subtract AD for damage from the end of the calculation; -1 AD per point of HP AND CP damage on the lead ship; halved for damage to linked ships. This also ends the double-degradation penalty on ships with multiple weapon systems, and makes doing CP damage more worthwhile...

 

3. Mines/Minesweeping

As a Dindrenzi player, I love my mines, and don't want them to change. BUT, I feel that a minesweeper option for each Race would be beneficial. My preference is for giving SRS the ability to disable mines. Let interceptors and fighters make attack runs against mines with a chance to set them off. Let engineering shuttles disable mines safely. Another option would be a minesweeper MAR for a frigate or corvette.

 

4. SRS

a.) Let SRS start in-play for ships that deploy at the beginning of the game.

b.) Allow interceptors to make attack runs against other SRS.

c.) Give Bombers a stand-off range. Allow them to make a 1/2 AD attack run from 6" away from the target ship. Call it a torpedo run or something.

 

5. Rebalance ship stats. 

I think there's a number of ships that many people think need a rebalance. This is an excellent opportunity to wield the nerf-hammer and the buff-wand. There's a number of Sorylian ships that could used a buff, and I think there might be some fish that need to get smacked with the nerf hammer...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like most of your ideas Drakus.

 

Not so keen on halving AD degradation for linking ships. Linking has complaints enough without making it also halving based on damage.

 

Using your point on the Bombers doing Torpedo runs is something I've suggested somewhere. I think if they could move away from their carrier and get a single shot torp run would be a neat play and make the bombers a tactical tool. I think this would need to change the return to base rule to balance it and have the bombers need to fly back. If they are used at range, they will likely get cut down - or you could use them similar to v2.0 rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that comes up a lot with my group is we all feel you loose too many BL points for a t1, and the way its worked out for battlecruisers in a squadron should be changed, as the first battlecruiser doesn't really award any bl at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think BL needs a huge shake up all over Presi. You are not wrong at all bud.

 

I mean in 800 points you get anomalies like Battlecruisers giving nearly as much BL swing as a Battleship, and they are generally much cheaper and easier to kill. Ditto with Carriers and Heavy Cruisers etc. So that needs a fix for certain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.