Ryjak Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 BigBen and I are going to play a small game tomorrow, hoping it will be fast. We're going to play-test my Tournament concept: 600 point Patrol Fleet No Battleships No Battlestations No Battlecarriers No TACs 4'x4' Table, 25% terrain (probably 6 pieces) He's bringing Terquai, with something like: Assault Carrier, fully loaded 3 Torpedo Cruisers 4 Frigates I'm bringing Dindrenzi, and I'm trying something new: Carrier (Ablative Removed), 6 Wings, 2 Gunships 3 Cruisers 3 Frigates We'll probably play Border Clash to keep it simple, but may d6 it... Well, d4 it. Scenarios 5&6 aren't good for Tournaments, due to how Battlelog is awarded. I haven't decided on the Wings... But BigBen has yet to face 6 Interceptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bessemer Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Looks solid enough. Bit harsh on Ba'kash players, though. steve_990 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terror Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 No Battleships No Battlestations No Battlecarriers No TACs Im curious...Why the restrictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasological Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 A 600pt list has a hard time cracking a 250pt T1. A 250pt T1 can probably lay waste to 300pts worth of any damn thing else. Ryjak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xystophoroi Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Though it does mean those people buying their faction starter patrol fleet can't actually play in the patrol fleet tournament and many of the alliance factions can't play 'pure' at all. Daeghrefn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Tarakian Xelocian Omnidyne Oroshan Corsairs 5 of 23 factions are excluded by these rules, and I am ok with that, but open to suggestions. ( hint: all these factions should have a Battlecruiser or Carrier) As for Patrol boxes… The game would be better if all the battleships were replaced with carriers or something similar, as Patrol box vs Patrol box isn't much fun. It's good for learning the game, I suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellduckwrong Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Looks solid enough. Bit harsh on Ba'kash players, though.I disagree. i think a decent Ba'Kash player would Be a very worthy adversary.590pts Heavy Cruiser x3 w/Weapon Shielding Cruiser x3 w/Weapon Shielding Frigate x5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Since I expect to fight that soon, we will see how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bessemer Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I disagree. i think a decent Ba'Kash player would Be a very worthy adversary. 590pts Heavy Cruiser x3 w/Weapon Shielding Cruiser x3 w/Weapon Shielding Frigate x5 I had forgot that Heavy Cruisers were T1 at patrol fleet level! Consider myself corrected Spellduckwrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimeball Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I still think the limit seems pretty arbitrary, carriers are pretty nasty at that points level too, a carrier with 2 six wing bomber tokens could decimate an opponents 600pt fleet. Maybe set a limit on points spent per option. That would allow people to take whatever ship, but prevent massive upgrading on a tough ship, and also would limit things like 4x heavy cruiser squadrons as well as your intended beefcake ships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 A carrier is a lot more limited and squishier than a battleship too. A Cruiser and Frigate squadron can potentially kill it before it ever got in range. Not so vs Battleships. Other than Aquans and Sorylians, who has 4x Heavy Cruisers? Would they really be overpowered? They only leave 200-250 points for T2 & T3. 320 4x Aquan Heavy Cruisers 160 2x Gunships 80 4x Frigates 40 points for upgrades, like Energy Transfer It's tough, but not invulnerable. I think the previous fleets stack up pretty well against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterimagedan Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 BigBen and I are going to play a small game tomorrow, hoping it will be fast. We're going to play-test my Tournament concept: 600 point Patrol Fleet No Battleships No Battlestations No Battlecarriers No TACs 4'x4' Table, 25% terrain (probably 6 pieces) I love this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardman Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 i tried some 600 Points games, good Point is it takes not much time to Play but one or two bad rolls on one side and it was sometimes allready very early clear who will win this. Very Little room to come back into Play after a bad move or a few bad dice rolls. I switched fast back to 800 Spellduckwrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTheRed Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I will give it a try this week end, I hope it will be quicker than regular game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull99 Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I suggest on the 5 factions that have no option for tier 1 you allow an extra tier2 in its place. The Tarakians can field 2 tier 2's and a tier 3 at 600. I think it would be viable option so no one is excluded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasological Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 That's a fair compromise I'd think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 That was a solution I was thinking... Another was to let them borrow the stats from an ally's valid T1. For example, use the Syndicate Battlecruiser stats for the Oroshan Battlecarrier you got with your box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 This seems like a good idea. Might even get some good use out of my veydreth heavies. afterimagedan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimeball Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Would you allow the factions that DO have a legal T1 the option to take dual T2's instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted February 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Would you allow the factions that DO have a legal T1 the option to take dual T2's instead? That's why this solution is a problem: balance. I have found 600 point games just aren't very fun unless you remove these Battle-X tanks from the mix, which eliminates several factions. But I also don't want it to turn into a "bringing all your basic Cruisers" event either. Whatever solution I settle on will need to apply to everyone to keep it fair. That's why I'm leaning towards letting Tarakians and others to field their Battle-X model, but using an ally's large model stat-line. In this case, Kurak Alliance has the following to borrow: 2 Carriers 1 Assault Carrier But to keep it fair, I would have to allow a Veydreth player to use their Battleship as one of these stat-lines, when I'd rather they used their Heavy Cruisers or Gunships. I suppose this is why I keep trying to find a way to allow Battle-X, but without allowing full Battle-X ships. Something like you can bring a Battle-X, but it starts at 50% HP, gives +2 Battlelog, and you still pay full points... maybe 75% full? Or you have a permanent -1DR/-2CR? So you're discouraged from fielding these units, but the Tarakians and Xelocians can bring their limited T1s to the game. It's far simplier to be heavy-handed and tell these players "sorry, you can't come". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted February 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Players: JorduSpeaks vs. Jason (not on forum) Points: 500 Scenario: Border Clash Factions: Relthoza vs. Ryushi Battle Log: 10 / -4 I captured a carrier (and got away with it), and only lost two ships. I flashed my tail to a flock of unmanned corvettes, then dropped a mine with my cruisers when the corvettes bunched up in my battleship's rear firing arc. This reads like a typical Battleship vs not-Battleship game at a small point levels to me... I think we all learn the hard way to not get your T3s Mined, but what else could he do vs a Battleship? That was probably the only significant damage inflicted on it, and it ultimately didn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTheRed Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 I give it a try today, Aquan vs Relthoa - Border clash Aquan: -Heavy carrier (5 fighters, 3 bombers, 2 shields) -4 Cruisers (DT) -4 Frigates -4 COrvettes Relthoza : -Battlecruiser (+2AP) + 2 Drones -3 Cruisers -2 Destroyers -4 Nidus with fighters Finished with a draw (8 vs 5.5) but Reltoza finished with more remaining fleet points than Aquan. Took about 2 hours to play (+ 45 min to set up and pack). About this kind of game: +Really like how medium are the king of the board. Larges play as support with specific role (carrier, assault boat...) but cannot put enough firepower to kill one medium per turn. +Small ships get great importance too as they can hurt a lot mediums, and at 600 pts each medium ship is important. +Tide of battle turn very quickly! +Some ships which are not cost effective in larger game became really interesting here. I mostly think about Relthoza Destroyer which bring nice firepower individually. In a same way, mandatory choice are here too costly to be no-brainer choice like the Relthoza heavy cruiser. -Turn 1 and 2 are about manoeuvring with not many fighting. -Last turns are tidious becaus ships are not able any more to finish ennemy. However this is common problem in FSA. Ryjak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I really appreciate the feedback! Thank you for trying it out. I'd like to say I'm surprised the game took two hours, but that's about how long a full 6+ Turns will generally take at this point level. I would say your + & - comments generally apply to larger games as well; they just become more apparent when the Battleships are not on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTheRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Well, it's probably my fault if it took so long, it's have been a while since I have play FSA, and I really dislike the layout of the rulebook it take me some time to find my way through it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasological Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Friend saw a 600 pt event on the G&S event calendar and I just realized it was probably your idea here Ryjak. That the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
