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S.Linde

Do you Shunt? Why all the Shunt Matrixs?

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Played Dindrenzi last night only at 500pts due to time but my Nidus were decimated at range despite being behind an asteroid field and within stealth distance at 30". Only one of them survived the first turn. Managed to shunt matrix my carrier up behind his Preatorian but with 5 Interceptors my assault boats/torps couldn't touch him. I took gunships which did well at range but eventually got pushed into a corner so that when I jumped over I ran into mines. Game ended up a draw when my carrier couldnt hurt his Battleship but h could turn enough to bring guns to bear on me.

I'm thinking shunt gunships are a little too fragile against Dindrenzi at small points where there is no target priority for them to worry about.

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When I first started playing this game I was drawn to Relthoza because of their shunt capability. However, now that I have more games under my belt and understand the game rules at lot better I don't use any ships with shunt. This is largely because of how unpredictable it is, which by itself wouldn't be unusable, but coupled with the fixed fore weapons it makes shunt pretty useless. 

 

It can still be used to close distance or to help maintain a separation distance on a ship advancing toward the shunt capable ship but neither of these scenarios are beneficial to Relthoza fleet. We don't want to close the distance too quickly because we just don't have the stats to brawl for multiple rounds at our offensively optimal distance (range band 2 in almost all cases) because we lose stealth and have to take cloaks down to be combat effective. And we don't want to maintain range because we lack ability to actually project damage at range. Sure we have torpedoes, but the potency of torps is easily rendered ineffective by your opponent taking interceptors and keeping their ships covered.

 

If shunting only ever required one role for the squad and the fixed fore weapons were instead fore, or if you could adjust facing after shunt distance is determined (which admittedly isn't really in line with the spirit of shunting), I would use it a lot more. That being said I do plan on playing around with the new destroyers because they've got decent broadsides. I found the carriers and banes to not really be effective because of how easily bombers and torps are shut down by interceptors and everyone always takes a lot of interceptors.

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You realise that the only Shunting ships we have that are FF are the gunship and LC, right? Banes/Araneaeas have been Fore arc since before there was more than one model in the class.

But since you roll Shunt dice separately fir each ship there is a good chance that some wildly different rolls will scatter your squad apart to the point that even with full arc you could still wind up out of arc of your intended target, or even out of Command Distance. Either way battle shunting just kind of sucks. I've seen it work against my Relthoza opponent so many times it's not funny anymore.

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Hive - Fore

Bane - Fore

 

Venom - Fore Fixed

Virulence - Fore Fixed

Iramon - Fore Fixed

 

As I mentioned above the FF weapons of the Venom, Virulence, and Iramon make them ineffective after shunting (with the possible exception of the Venom because it has decent broadsides). When shunting with these if you are off from your distance mark by just 1-2 inches you lose the ability to shoot the fixed fore weapons at your target because the specified facing no longer lines up. Ships being spread out was never the problem. But that is solved by adjusting the number of dice you throw for distance.

 

This leaves the Venom destroyer, Bane cruiser, and Hive carrier as potentially viable shunting ships. The most effective range for these ships is between 8" - 16". This is inside stealth distance so a large component of our ships defense is lost leaving only cloak. While cloak is up and at full strength, a squad of 3 banes puts out 6 shots, a squad of 1 hive and 2 bane puts out 7, and the venoms put out 6. This is enough to crit/hit most frigates, and the venoms could score a hit on cruisers. With cloaks down the number of shots becomes 14, 16, 12, respectively which is enough to start scoring hits and occasional crits on tier 1 ships. But these ships won't last long enough to actually destroy tier 1 ships that are firing back before they are destroyed themselves. They don't have the DR/CR and hit points. Torpedoes could help swing this more in our favor, but the conditions when torpedoes are actually effective are very limited.

 

TL;DR The fixed fore ships are definitely not good as far being effective while utilizing the shunt mechanic. After more carefully analyzing them the bane, hive, and venom, could be effective with certain lists and tactics. For example, shunting around into aft arcs to maximize primary weapon attacks and bring a directorate ally to cyber warfare down point defense systems so torps are more effective.

 

A fleet comp something like this:

 

Tier 1

Directorate BS Anarchist

1-2 squads Hive Carrier w/ 2 bane depending on points

 

Tier 2

3 Bane cruisers

2 Venom destroyer

maybe the directorate R&D ship that has cloak and cyber warfare (I think)

 

Tier 3

Minimal number of Nidus frigates, either 2 squads of 4, or 2 of 2 with regroup.

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With the forward fixed weapons, if you shunt directly towards or away from your intended target, and declare your facing to point along the shunt path, you can fire after Shunting.

Dale showed me this at Adepticon with his Banes. He'll do quite well with the Gunships.

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That tactic worked pretty well with gunships when I used them. 7" forward with a turn to target then a 2d6 shunt directly back maintaining facing. After 3 turns of decent shooting the enemy had finally closed and I shunted right over the top of him facing back along the path to give shots into their rears. Turns out at close range those torpedos actually get pretty nasty too. One thing I couldn't find was that with the dice rolled 2 of them landed right on top of an enemy battleship. As per the movement rules we reduced the shunt distance by the minimum amount so that their bases weren't overlapped which unfortunately pushed them into range of 3 mine tokens. Is this the right way to do thin gs or should we have moved them over the other side by increasing the distance? One was closer to the front and the other was slightly closer to the back if it makes a difference.

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That's the problem with the Proximity Vectoring Rule; it's completely subjective:

When Proximity Vectoring, simply adjust the nal position of the moving model so that it can be placed on the Game Board without interference from Flight Stands or other models. This adjustment should be as small as possible, and the model should maintain its original orientation.

Wherever possible, a model making a Proximity Vector move should not gain any immediate advantage from the readjustment of its position.

Important Note: While good sportsmanship is always the key in these situations, if players cannot agree on the fairest way to resolve a Proximity Vector move, an independent third party may be helpful to adjudicate.

Rules are fundamentally procedures, and any given game situation should be resolved the same way every time, by everyone. This isn't possible here, so however you resolved it is acceptable.

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So you change the number of dice you roll to keep yourself in cohesion if you need to. It's really not that difficult as long as you're sensible about what you're doing with it - I've only had it fail me once.

Then your dice either loaded or just far less fickle and random than what I've ever seen.

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Then your dice either loaded or just far less fickle and random than what I've ever seen.

 

Or you've only played against people who tried to do too much (or done so yourself). Aim for the average for the number of dice you're rolling and you won't usually be too far wrong.

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So with the arrival of the "Improved Shunt Matrix" will players Shunt more?

I personally love the new ship stats.

Only issue for me is the restrictions on gunships. Only 1 group in a Battlefleet. So sad.

Then ability to keep the squadron together on a shunt is a huge improvement to say the least

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