Jump to content
Bobthefat

Snake like movement, why is this in the game?

Recommended Posts

Over a few games we've encountered  that models with 0 turn limit can turn back and forth to gain extra movement. In some cases up to an extra 50%. For example, some Isonades cruisers were within 4 of a planet to get a movement of 15 inches but after 'snaking' had moved 23 inches across the board. This extra movement is a bit much and can be easily exploited as this movement was instantly enough to get behind enemy ships, place mines etc. Any thoughts on why no rules exists to stop this when there is nothing like this in the other Spartan games? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was an issue that was brought up in Dystopian Wars.  Their solution to it was at first to make alternating back and forth three or more times to subject your ship to an 8AD attack.  After the 2.0 release, they changed it to ships measuring their 45 degree turns from the center of the model's base, and that helped reduce the extra move available to get.  Honestly, while there is no official rule against it, it should simply be discouraged.  Anyone caught deliberately doing that should be socially ostracized as you see fit.  I wouldn't play against them.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over a few games we've encountered  that models with 0 turn limit can turn back and forth to gain extra movement. In some cases up to an extra 50%. For example, some Isonades cruisers were within 4 of a planet to get a movement of 15 inches but after 'snaking' had moved 23 inches across the board. This extra movement is a bit much and can be easily exploited as this movement was instantly enough to get behind enemy ships, place mines etc. Any thoughts on why no rules exists to stop this when there is nothing like this in the other Spartan games? :)

 

If you have the 45 degree template, and apply it to the edge of the base, snaking is an inevitable consequence. It is very hard to write rules that prohibit it that don't make the models concerned ridiculously cumbersome.

 

Incidentally, in  Dystopian Wars, snaking was an issue. Now, it has been almost totally killed off- for the Land models, which were the ones to benefit from snaking, we gave them 360 degree move so they pivot around their centre point, and so turns no longer give extra move.

 

James

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A model with a 0" turn pivoted at the corner potentially has an infinite move. Pivot 45° on you right corner then 45° on your left corner gives you about an inch of forward movement. Then just keep repeating that, technically all you have done is turned, with no actual forward element.

With models with 0" turns, seeing as the model can turn as much as it likes at any point in its move, we often don't bother with templates and pivoting. We just move the ships to anywhere so the stem is within movement range of its initial position. Makes frigate movement in particular so much quicker and does away with snaking as the stem will never move more than the ships movement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A model with a 0" turn pivoted at the corner potentially has an infinite move.

 

You know that each turn costs 1", right? If you are referring to Bunnahabhains comment on DW, a 360° turn is made by pivoting around the centre of the model/base, so you don't gain any additional distance from turning. But maybe I misunderstood you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like I have been playing turns wrong. I thought you pivoted 45° then moved, I didn't realise that first inch of movement was actually part of the turn as well.

So a 0 inch ship has to move 1 inch between pivots, a 1 inch ship has to move 2 inchhes between pivots and things like the dindrenzi dread have to move 4 inches between pivots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The act of turning consumes 1" of movement. So, in order for a TL 3" model to turn at all, it must first move forward 3". Then, it can turn up to 45 degrees using the turn template, which forces you to move forward 1" in order to reach the pivot point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do not pivot on the spot, you have to move along the template to the next edge of the template, which is one inch distance. Picture A on page 51 (DigiAdmiralRulebook) shows a frigate making two turns consecutively, which takes 2" of its movement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This comes up every now and again when players discover this little rules abuse. I think that it was just forgotten when the rulebook was written. It is a valid, though distasteful maneuver. It was never the subject of any errata, so just go with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The easiest way to solve this would be to increase all the turn limit ships to turn limit one.

Unfortunatley, that would be a massive change and require repointing/rebalancing of a ton of ships for such a minor rules abuse. And if I remember correctly, TL1 ships can still get extra distance if their movement value is high enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ist allways better to have a official ruling.

So you dont have to start to argue about it everytime someone starts to move a squad about the hole Table for 10 Minutes.

Why is it a nice Thing to have exploitable rules in a Game? You still can do as many turns as you Need to circle around somethink you should just stop making your Opponent wants to quit playing FSA watching you several minutes hugging the turning template.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was an issue that was brought up in Dystopian Wars.  Their solution to it was at first to make alternating back and forth three or more times to subject your ship to an 8AD attack.  After the 2.0 release, they changed it to ships measuring their 45 degree turns from the center of the model's base, and that helped reduce the extra move available to get.  Honestly, while there is no official rule against it, it should simply be discouraged.  Anyone caught deliberately doing that should be socially ostracized as you see fit.  I wouldn't play against them.  

 

The exact modification for 2.0 is page 46 of the Digital Admiral Ruklebook: 

 

Snaking

If a Model using the 45-degree Turning Template changes the side from which it makes a Turn, without moving at least 1" directly ahead between each of those turns, it is considered to be Snaking. Once a Model is considered to be Snaking, it must take a Treacherous Terrain Test EACH time it turns. If it fails the Treacherous Terrain Test, it is considered to have Collided with a Terrain Classification that is Hazardeous to it and resolves the Collision IMMEDIATELY (see Page 106).

 

I think this could be translated in the world of FSA quite easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That dystopian rule would translate really easily. Could definitely replicate the stresses put on the hull as it wrestles with the inertia of a km+ long ship turning back and forth quickly.

  

The rule from Dystopian wars would work perfectly, as it does in dystopian wars :)

HELL NO! Porting stuff straight in from Dystopian Wars is how we got that god-awful clusterfrak 1.5 edition! No more of that, keep your damned steampunk out of my sci-fi!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.