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Hans_Steam

CQB / Arc of Fire / Skydrop

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Hello everyone

 

I do have a couple of questions after my last game. My friend and I agreed on a solution, but we want to make sure that we play it RAW next time.

 

First My Friend called in his Yayiss Spire which landed in 4" to my Infantry squad and my Sedna Squad. He Disembarked his Drones and called a CQB engagement against my Sedna.

Now what we are not sure about is if he/I could have called a CQB first with/against the Spire against/with one of my squadrons.

 

And would the Drones disembark befor the CQB with/against the Spire.

 

Second Question.

 

My Lamana Squadron was in the left Arc of Fire from his Salamas Squadron. He managed to draw Line of Sight from the front of the Base to my Lamana, but the whole left fire arc was blocked due to terrain. We agreed that he can't fire on the Lamanas.

Now could he have fired normaly on my Squadron since he was able to draw a line of sight altought not from the relevant arc?

 

Could i claim an additional cover save because of that?

 

And as a last question. Can i hold more Squadrons in Skydrop reserve than i have Markers on the Table? Im pretty sure the answer is yes but it feels wierd somehow.

 

Thank you for your answers and please excuse the bad English.

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In answer:

 

1. Yes you could have called a CQB engagement against his Spire, if you destroyed it the Drones would disembark with a disorder marker and be unable to CQB you that turn. 

 

You can do this as the Spire has its own Movement / CQB / Shooting phase as it is an activation. It might not do anything in most of them, but the turn it arrives it has a movement phase, and can therefore be attacked.

 

2. Hmmm, will be interesting to see on what the others say here, for me if you can only see the front arc, then you are firing in the front arc, if the LoS to the flank is blocked. I wouldnt have prevented them being shot at, but would have suggested that they should shoot at them, but counted as if they were in the front arc. (admittedly till the Lamana's took damage the arc doesn't actually matter due to Sectored armour. 

 

3. Yes, you could in theory only take one SirSir and therefore 2 Sky Drop markers, but have four Crystals and two Stingray emplacements. The risk is that the enemy is more likely to know where they will arrive. You dont remove Sky drop markers when something arrives on them so no problems with that. 

 

Hopefully that's helpful, will be interesting to see what others say to point 2, I might have missed a ruling somewhere! 

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First the Spire has to resolve its activation. Dropping is his Movement, then he could call a CQB, if not, your Squadron in range may initiate CQB (pdf rules page 90). This is followed by Main Ordenance of the Spire, which has none, then its activation is over. Now the drones may activate immediately due to Assualt Vehicle MAR (pdf rules page 116).

 

Firing is resolved in the arc the weapon has. If there is no legal target, it cannot shoot the target squadron (pdf rules page 101). Cover is only for infantry holding Buildings or forests (pdf rules page 77).

 

To the third question, yes you can.

 

Edit a schematic to point 2: A's front acr can only target B's side. A's Side arc can see both, front and side, so shoots at side of B. Its important, that all models contributing to the attack have to see the the front/side/rear. And if side of the target is blocked, but you can also see the front, then you can target the front. Better than not shooting at all.

post-5910-0-16757900-1452680132_thumb.jp

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Thank you all for the answers.

 

@Brimat Thank you for the Page references. The problem is he had line of sight. Our argument came if the relevant arc of fire needs line of sight or just the model in general. I hope the attached situation makes it a bit clearer. The red line is the Arc of Fire and the green line the line of sight.

post-6136-0-34758300-1452683387_thumb.pn

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That diagram makes it much clearer, as I was answering something else Hans.

 

In that scenario despite being able to see the model, but out of firing arc means you cannot fire at them. So you ruled correctly in the game. A model always has to be in your firing arc for you to be able to shoot at them.

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Hello Brimat

But my model was in a legal fire arc. My friend just couldn't draw a line of sight from the relevant arc. But he could draw a line of sight from a point of his model to another point of my model. We understood page 100 more when you can see it you can shoot it provided its in one of your firing arcs.

But thank you and also Kraggi for your help

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Ha so the Salamas was facing the terrain in the diagram... which in hindsight should have been obvious given how you had the base arranged.

 

Apologies for the confusion, at least Brimat was able to answer it. 

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If i look at your picture, the lamana was not in the firing arc of the salamas, so the question of line of sight does not matter.

 

I used your picture for explanation.

Case1: no LoS due to blocking terrain

Case2: no LoS due to not in firing arc

 

If i am on the wrong way of understanding the problem, i may be forgiven.  :)

 

 

In certain occasions, Models will be restricted in their Line of Sight by a weapons's Fire Arc. Page 100

 

post-5910-0-67361200-1452696276_thumb.jp

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Whilst the rules state you can draw LoS from ANY part of the models base.. if you check the diagram on page 100 of the Dindrenzi command barge and it's Fore arc gun, you have to be able to draw LoS from the weapon's firing arc. If that Salamas had an AR arc it could probably shoot that model, but since it does not and it has an arc of F it must be able to draw LoS from it's forward arc to shoot.

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Ok maybe im just confused because the Salamas has a F/L/R firing arc. So basicly we figure out in which Fire Arc the target is and then measure LoS from that Arc.

 

In our Case the Lamanas is in the Left Fire Arc so LoS has to be checked from there and since LoS is blocked so he can't shoot my Lamanas.

 

There is no wierd curveball shooting from the front arc into the left arc.

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Actually that's not fudging because it is clearly stated. It's two different checks. The issue I have here is you could easily say that if a weapon has F/L/R arcs in order to shoot a model, you have to pick a LoS arc and use that to to see if you can shoot it. Like the Salamas gun has F/R/L arcs, so it must be able to draw LoS in one of those arcs to shoot. It can't in F arc, it can't in the Right arc, and it certainly can't in the Left Arc. Thus it can't shoot potentially?

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I would say that you could have shot the Lamana in this case with a F/L/R arc (or an AR arc).

 

As Drakere says you can draw LoS from ANY part of the models base, as long as it is in your firing arc.

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Step 1: Can a straight line be drawn from any part of the firing model's base to the target model's base? If yes, LOS is established.

Step 2: Is the target's base in the firing arc of the firing model? if yes, commence shooting if within range.

The firing arc is used to determine if a weapon can be used to fire at a target in that direction, not if the target can be seen.

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I found a rule book entry regarding the F/L/R arc discussion.

 

Reading this i would interpret the rules, that you can not combine single arcs to a "big-half-around"- firing arc, you have to choose one and then check LoS.

 

 

Models will often have notations where multiple arcs are listed such as 'F+R' - meaning the weapon has the option to fire in either the Fore or Right 90-degree arcs. pdf rulebook page 37

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I would have to agree with Brimat. Otherwise it definitely is bending bullets. Or its an unwritten rule that means fire arcs ignore terrain.

Maybe the FAQ should rule that inorder to be in a fire arc you have to also draw los from that arc.

The only exception I think is of AR which as I read is one big Arc where as F/L/R is 3 separate arcs.

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