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Kurgan

CHAT LOG 3726

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On 8/10/2016 at 10:16 AM, Ryjak said:

I think games like this demonstrate the game would benifit from:

A. An Exploding Dice limitation, such as Halo Fleet Battle's system, which imposes a maximum result.

B. Introducing some kind of luck mitigation mechanic; many dice and card games are doing something, such as limited re-rolls.  Usually these only allow you to adjust your own rolls, and not impact your opponent.


What?  The exploding dice mechanic is what I love about this game.  How often do dice actually run away like that.  On a ship with with DR/CR of 5/10(Falchion Carrier for example) 10 hits is the same outcome as 19 hits.  Your concern is really about weaker ships with lower DR/CR which is way cooler when they go pop from crazy dice rolls any way.  You have a greater change of double crits!!!

I love that.  

If you don't like random and you want to mitigate it, stick to checkers.... Dice just might be your sworn enemies....

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On August 9, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Commodore Jones said:

Poor Gyrant, even a two squad activation advantage and sound tactics couldn't overcome his craptastic dice luck this game.

Then Lady Luck tried to really rub it in when my disordered Missionary squadron rolled two crits and two hits.  Hopefully the new set of dice I gifted him with will do better.

There are two options for introducing a luck mitigation mechanic.  One focuses on Commodore Jones's first statement, another focuses on his second statement.

My vote is for option A: mitigate when your dice are cold, leave the hot dice alone.  Putting a hard limit to the total number of successes you can achieve, such as in HALO, isn't direct luck mitigation.

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It was in the second turn, my first activation. I reacted to Spooks closing the distance to get a RB2 shot at my Integration and caught one Spook with my Bombers. Lost one wing to PD and then critted it for 4HP, blew it up, damaged another one and double critted the third. It was insane.

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Yeah, I haven't seen 11 rolled for two years and now I rolled it five times in three games. It had no effect at two occasions, but on the other three it had decent impact on the game. But to be fair critical result Main Drive Failure messed our games a lot too. All the effects have a chance to mess with the game a lot, it just depends on what ship in what situation they end up with. 11 is different only for affecting everyone the same, it hurts everyone.

Luck is part of the game. All your dice rolls are affected by luck, not just the roll on the Crit Table.

I like games when players are similarly lucky in their rolls and it really comes down to their skill and fleet build. But you can't have it all the time. So when something insane happens I hope me or my opponent can take it and smile. You can't do much else anyway.

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I really don't think that Reactor Breach should be removed from the game. Lucky shots happen in the real world, just look at HMS Hood and that magazine detonation... All the skill in the world won't save you if a 15" shell plunges through the deck armour, hits a powder store and blasts the ship in half. 

Putting a hard cap on exploding dice would make Tier 3s much, much less effective, especially if they have to take on larger enemies. I wouldn't look to Halo Fleet Battles for the answer to the Runaway Exploding Dice issue (if it's even an issue, again, lucky shots can happen), as there are a lot of mechanics in HFB that I take issue with. 

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It does make being willing to take a critical hit into a risk. Seeing as only criticals can effect said result, this means they who 'pile on' for the criticals rather than just plinking may well be rewarded.

Of course there is always a chance that a low AD attack 'blooms' and proceeds to score a Reactor Breach 6 HP result. It can happen and if it does can seriously unbalance the conclusion of the game. It is what it is. It's in there for flavour and the theatrical element. Not so good if you're trying to eliminate game effecting luck.

As there is no way bar Kinetics coherence to increase the odds of effecting the Reactor Breach result it would simply be up to an organised play organiser to alter the possibility to 0. Would Dindrenzi complain?

Scenarios involving compulsory shunting players have written sometimes do away with the 2 and 12 results on the shunt table.

It's not unfeasible to do the same to the Crit chart. Don't forget the polar roll effect of having your FSD activate and plonk your Battlecruiser into a planet! Just as deadly if not more so.

It's surely up to a organised play organiser to put in the includes and removals from the game rules. After all its up to an organiser (and players) whether they use the Blind deployment (and activation - read it!) rule or open deployment. Vent decks rule as well.

Whilst these may be written as either/or or optional it's hardly going to destroy an organised play setting if Reactor Breaches are removed. No one bar Drenzi ( and they just cause nice damage anyway) will be losing out so to speak..

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Doesn't it mean that a critical hit roll of 11 with the Kinetic coherence effect could be translated to 12, thereby being the Reactor Breach result?

Certainly yes as well though, for Dindrenzi with their range projection and good AD levels causing criticals is more likely.

 

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Ah ok, I was just thinking with false recall that double 6 was Reactor Breach and double 1 was Drive rupture. So no it won't affect the 'Drenze then! :P

In that case an organiser can just declare (in a tourney pack) that, to avoid an element of game balancing from a single dice roll, double 1s are rerolled.

I wouldn't suggest allowing a choice on the critical table instead due to the precise stack effect a particular selection could have. Drive failure meaning that 2hp down BB ploughs into that small moon etc!.

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9 hours ago, Ryjak said:

@Kurgan So are you flying to North America to crush everyone at Adepticon?  Have you tried playing a pure Trader Fleet?

:D Strangely when we visit German tournaments my mates I crush all year long win them instead.

Haven't tried playing Traders at all so far. I am mostly playing 5 core factions as I have the painted models available (no Relthoza so far) and rarely borrow RSN or bring my allied Zenian fleet.

 

5 hours ago, Bessemer said:

@kurgan Hard to find opponents in general or because of the Tournament List?

In general. We don't have a super strong community here and with my time restrictions I have issues to get opponents at all. The few available are getting bored of losing all the time. Outside of this list test they can choose me a fleet to play. Trying to help them improve and see their mistakes is usually what they don't want to hear and blame dice. My wins are mostly for exploiting opponents grave mistakes and not letting him exploit mine. But they don't see it this way, they just remember I critted that ship with that amount of dice etc.

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Yes, they do. But I had more free time lately so they played mostly me. If you look into the log you will find out I haven't played much the first half of the year and played most of my games now. So it's all linked, more games against me and most of them losses etc. Good thing we are going to Germany early next month and we won't be playing against each other there.

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I feel you Kurgan, I'm going through the same thing myself.  I've started playing with dice that I know roll like absolute **** to try and help out discouraged players. I'm also fiddling with an idea of stepping back from playing but still showing up for games and acting as a "Tactical Advisor" to my gaming buddies who have been on some of the longer losing streaks.

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@Alex 

A friend lent me his aquan ships because we were both tired of playing each others fleets and I have to say, playing aquan feels great, the ships are fast, hard and maneouverable, hit hard and drop enough mines to fill the table. The drenzi had a turn and a half of full shooting against me before being bypassed and the game was then all mine (double +mv tac + a slingshot to get past the drezi fore fixed weaponry) combined with late reserves from unlucky reserve rolls

Now you see all the advantages Aquans have, and it sounds like you fully employed them. Do you think there's anything your opponent could have done to stop you?

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9 hours ago, Ryjak said:

@Alex 

 

Now you see all the advantages Aquans have, and it sounds like you fully employed them. Do you think there's anything your opponent could have done to stop you?

Not really. To clarify, one friend lent me his aquan ships to play against a different player. I built a fleet with what I saw on the case and played it. BB with escorts, 2x4 cruisers and 4 frigates, no weird lineups like trying to use light cruisers with gunships, Sulis reflecting or others. I ended playing a frigate squadron on reverse cause I mixed the fore and aft parts all the game.

And to be honest, the Isonade squadrons are good at everything, other than boarding it seems

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