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LOS Targets to be killed

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Let us assume situation that 2 Heavy relthoza Visith walkers are firing on 3 sorylian Bor'kas.

However one of  visths due to being large and fact that there is lot of building can see only one Bor'ka.

How many of them can by actually killed?

 

on picture:

Black: Buildings

Red: Borkas

Green: Visiths

Grey line: Actual LOS limited due to building

Purpleline 45 degree limitation

 

 

planetfalldiagram.jpg?ver=0

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The answer to this is all of them. It has come up before and the ruling was by Derek that whilst Visith 2 can only see 1 Bor'Ka, it would be assumed that, should enough hits pool over to kill the other two, mystically, that the damage gone to Bor'Ka 1 came from Visith 2, and the damage down to Bor'Kas 2 and 3 came from Visith 1 etc. But essentially, the answer is you can damage as many models as at least 1 model in the squadron can see, regardless if only Model X and can see model A and only model Y can see model B etc.

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It's not that hard to say to the above situation you can fire all dice but only kill the one guy they can both see. :s that's far more reasonable, and basically what it suggests in the actual rules ( line of sight implies) ?

I for one will be playing it how I've just described until it's been officially written in an FAQs...

That's an awful ruling. Simply awful. It's actually a little game breaking to be honest. :s

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CHECK LINE OF SIGHT

Although the futuristic vehicles of Planetfall are fully equipped with advanced targeting systems, and they are able to pinpoint their fire on minute target areas, their shells cannot penetrate solid rock or multiple buildings. To this end, determining Line of Sight is strict, but very simple.

For a Model to contribute to an Attack against a target Squadron, it needs to be able to draw Line of Sight to it. If a straight line can be drawn from ANY part of the attacking Model’s base to ANY part of the target Model’s base WITHOUT crossing another Blocking Model’s base, Building or otherwise Blocking Terrain Feature, then its Line of Sight is Clear and it can contribute to the Attack. If this line CANNOT be drawn, then its Line of Sight is Blocked and it CANNOT contribute to the Attack.

If that doesn't translate to you can hit what you can see, I don't know what does.

Madness.

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So in the above diagram the squadron as a whole can only collectively draw line of sight to 2 models. So if you use pooled attack the squad is considered for Los as one, if you fire each heavy separately one can potentially kill 3 tanks one can only kill 2?

That's not complicated, that's killing what you can see,

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I think you mis-read or just skimmed what I said then went on an explosive exaggeration. A model HAS TO HAVE LOS TO THE SQUADRON IT WANTS TO SHOOT IN ORDER TO SHOOT IT. BUT, you do not need to have every model have LoS to an individual model to be able to damage it.

 

Both those Visiths can see the squadron, so both can shoot. Since Visith A has LoS to all models in the squadron, all models are eligible to be damaged. You still CANNOT shoot at a squadron if the model DOESN'T have LoS to the squadron. But not every model in the squadron has to have LoS to model B + C in order to damage it.

 

To put it another way. Say there is 3 Heimdahls firing at 3 Eris. Heimdahl A has LoS to Eris 1, 2 and 3, and Heimdahl B has LoS to Eris 1 but not Eris 2 and 3. Heimdahl C has LoS to none of the Eris. In this example, Heimdahl A and B may fire on the Eris squadron, and all 3 Eris are eligible for damage because Heimdahl A has LoS to all 3. Understand?

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Because you need LoS to the squadron to CONTRIBUTE to the firing action, but you don't need everyone to have LoS to all the models for all the models to be eligible for damage, just 1 model that can contribute to the firing action to have LoS to it.

 

It's two seperate things whether you agree with it or not. You need LoS to CONTRIBUTE. But you only need 1 model to see it to make it eligible to be damaged by the attack. Consider it two different checks, as via the process of when you make an attack. LoS check, how many models have LoS to the squadron? Heimdahl A and Heimdahl B do, thus they can contribute to the attack. Now check what models can be seen, Heimdahl A can see all three, so all three are eligible for damage. Done.

 

Check the Rulebook under Main Ordance Segment and Firing Steps and Actions. Mutual Agreements, point 1, you check which models have LoS to the Squadron you want to shoot. Point 2, you check which models are viable targets, and those are whatever models at least 1 model that is contributing as determined by point 1 can see.

 

What you are doing is merging it into one step when it's two different checks that you eliminate as it goes, that's why because C cannot see any models it cannot contribute, because it got rules out in step 1 because it couldn't see anything, so it's not even under consideration for point 2. You have to take weapon arcs into account as well for Point 1 when agree if a model can participate in an attack, because obviously it can't participate if it doesn't have a weapon in arc...

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Though this does come up with some awkward moments when all members of the firing squad can see a member of the target squad but a different member of the target squad. To be honest while odd that scenario isnt even close to game breaking.

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So if I can see the Realthozan command spire but not the turrets and fire on the  unit the turrets take the hits if they are closer?

Not if none of the models in the firing squadron can see the turrets.

A model can contribute to the attack if it can see any part of the target squadron. After hits are counted, damage may only be applied to enemy models, starting with the closest, that had LOS drawn to them from any part of the firing squadron.

There are two abstracted steps here. Determining which models may contribute to the attack dice pool for the firing action, and then, which models are able to have damage applied to them.

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Try this example.

Two Heimdalls (blue) are shooting at a Leto Squadron (red). 

Heimdall A can see 2, 3 and 4.
Heimdall B can see 2 and 3. 

Since 2, 3 and 4 can be seen by the Blue Squadron (even though Leto 4 can't be seen by Heimdall B...), they are the ones under threat.  So even though Heimdall B can't see Leto 4, since someone else in his squadron can (Heimdall A) he is viable target for the whole squadron. However, since noone in the Heimdall Squadron can see Leto 1, he is safe from damage.

However, this works the other way too. If the Letos were shooting at the Heimdalls, both are A and B under threat as at least one Leto can draw LoS to each of them, but Leto 1 cannot join in the attack as he can't see either of the Heimdalls.

LoS_PF.png

Have I made the mud any clearer...? :P

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I was being over dramatic to make a point an promote further discussions on the point. It worked lol . ... Lol I don't agree. I dont think I ever will. Tbh. The idea that a tank in a squad can kill one that it can't see bothers me. That all.

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And before people say . Oh it's for simplicity.

I don't see what is complicated about the way I've stated using raw. .. Using the above, both heimdals share common Los to 2 and 3 they can both contribute to the attack. Except only 2 and 3 can die no matter how good they roll.

I feel the way you guys are saying it works takes away from the skill of getting into position. It's lazy and rewards poor positioning play. I just don't like it. I think I would only play it the way you are saying if it got documented officially. Still wouldn't like it though.

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