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Overwatch vs Hit & Run

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How does this two rules deal between them?

I understand that Overwatch activates after the movement of the objective. Then, if a unit with Hit & Run activates in range of a unit in Overwatch, can shoot and move far of the "overwatching" unit.

That's the way it is?

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Overwatch is after a Movement Action, what sequences it happens doesn't matter, it is always after a movement action is resolved. Meaning should a model use H&R, it can shoot then move out of Overwatch sight and end it's movement so it won't get retaliated upon.

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No, I don't think that's correct. The hit and run models can shoot first without being fired upon, but then when they move, at any point in in front of the firing arc of an over watch model, then at the completion of the move action the squad is immediately fired upon.

"P73

If, at ANY point between the end of the Squadron’s Activation and the

start of its next Activation, an opposing Squadron completes ANY Move-

ment Action within the Fire Arc of one or more Models in the Squadron,

those Models with Line of Sight can IMMEDIATELY

perform an out-of-sequence Main Ordnance Firing

Action against that opposing Squadron.

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No, Specky, because it states COMPLETES any movement action. You can only Overwatch at the END of a Movement action, you cannot interupt them in progress of moving, and you cannot interupt them before they move. Thus a model has to END it's Movement Action and thus COMPLETE the movement action in the firing arc of a model on Overwatch, for it to be subjected to Overwatch.

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Hmm, I disagree. Comes down to the definition of 'completes' a movement action within arc. If it stated finished/ends its move rather than completed I'd agree with you Drakere. I think it's ambiguous but I get how it could be interpreted that way.

My interpretation is that if you were on overwatch and an enemy darted from one line of site building to another, but passed through your arc of fire, then once they have completed their move you may immediately take an overwatch shot.

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I think I remember someone having your interpretation or something similar before Specky and Derek dropped in to clarify that the "complete" meant  that they had to end their movement still in LoS, range, and firing Arc. The trouble is finding it in these forums again... I do seem to remember the example given was an overwatching squadron stuffed between two buildings and an enemy squadron darted past them and began and ended with buildings blocking LoS. So the ONLY time the Overwatch'ing models saw them was during movement. Because they all ended out of sight they couldn't be shot.

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Yes I remember that Max. I found a post where Drakere reiterates that point.

 

But it is clear on Pg73:

 

If,... an opposing Squadron completes ANY Movement Action within the Fire Arc of one or more Models in the Squadron...

 

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Aye Zeph, but as with most of our issues with rules the semantics comes down to a single term. "Completes" in an absolute reading means that they do the movement action THEN you check for Overwatch, this is how you and I read it/Derrek states it. In a looser reading (and how many other games use the term) is more "performs but isn't interrupted by the response action," this is how Specky is reading it.

 

I'll see if I can track it down but for the moment Specky, try and trust us that this is how the designer has explained it. You have to wait till they have finished their entire movement action before you can measure and draw line of sight to their destination to see if an Overwatch reaction can occur.

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I honestly don't get how it's unclear... To me complete means finalised/ended/finished/resolved etc etc?  To complete something means you've arrived at the end, you have not yet completed a movement action if you're still moving? It has to COMPLETE a movement action. Moving part way is not completing, you are still in the process of completing an action if you move from one building to another. Whilst in the process of transit, it is not yet completed. The model has to pick a Movement Action from it's options in the rulebook, COMPLETE that movement action, then you get to see if it ended within one of your firing arcs to Overwatch.

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Let me rephrase this. If I'm understanding Specky's reading correctly, he's understanding it as:

 

  1. Unit A is on overwatch.
  2. It is Unit B's activation.
  3. Unit B moves through or from within Unit A's range, LoS, & Firing arc.
  4. Unit B ends it's movement outside Unit A's normal capability to fire.
  5. Because Unit B was within Unit A's range, arc, and LoS while completing it's movement action; once it completes said action the overwatch firing is resolved.
  • From his stance the purpose of the word 'complete' in this instance is because the overwatch doesn't stop or interrupt Unit B's movement. Unit B MUST complete it's movement before dice are rolled for overwatch but because B got within range & etc of A at all, he believes A still gets to fire once B completes it's movement. Range and such to him is checked for Unit A during the movement, but the firing doesn't occur until Unit B completes it's movement action.
  • To us, and the guy who wrote the book, the purpose of "complete" is to say that Unit B complete's it's movement then checks are made to see if Overwatch is able to be fired. Range and such to us is checked for Unit A after Unit B completes it's movement action and the firing occurs immediately after that.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you Zeph and Drakere, I'm trying to verify what I think he's saying for future reference. AKA I'm getting the misconception pinned down so when it comes rewrite time for the rules they can avoid it repeating for others.

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But it says COMPLETEs and WITHIN it's firing Arc. You can't split the two.. it's two condition listed right there that have to be met for you to OVerwatch. You must Complete a Movement Action AND be within Firing Arc, not in firing Arc during?

 

"an opposing Squadron completes ANY Move-

ment Action within the Fire Arc"

 

That bit means when you complete a movement action within Firing Arc, not during your movement action, when you complete it. You don't check if it's within firing arc until the action is complete, thus I don't see how it's being misinterpreted?

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MaxToreador summarises my view comprehensively. If the rule says if a model 'ends' its move within arc I think this rule would be clearer.

'Completes' means to me a process that takes time or is not infintitely discrete. Hooray for the English language!

If the Spartans design intent was the other interpretation, so be it. Hopefully a new FAQ will sort it out.

If someone can find that Spartan Derek post, that would be super great.

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Aye.. but we can promise you it has been answered that you have to END your movement and be within Overwatch Firing Arc, me, Max and Zeph have all pretty much been here since the start and me and Max are Beta Testers and can tell you that is how it is suppose to be and intended. Completes is suppose to mean the end of the movement action.

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