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Xen

Tarakians - To Grav off or not to Grav off..

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Well the Tarakian Patrol fleet has arrived, as DanSG-19 wanted them, to see what a Grav weapon load out force could do. Yes this includes the pushing off the table trick! As the erstwhile opponent I can't wait to play Escalating Engagement and really see if my (Insert expensive and required T1 ship here) comes on and then just disappears lol.

Think of it as a playtest. If it happens too easily or often then we simply won't be allowing that capability in a game. Most likely solution being that a ship, if forced off the board goes into reserve and could come on as soon as the next turn. Probably with the entry point having to be within 6" or something of the previous entry point. The RAW situation is against the spirit of the game (in my mind) and an obvious rules interaction oversight!. For us to use it should it prove to be 'unjust' (call it what you will!) would definitely create a game that loses it's genuine challenge appeal and possibly delegate that particular set of circumstances to something more often seen in a game of 40k!.

Personally at first as mentioned I can't wait to see my Directorate BB come on then get a little shove that effectively destroys it, hahah :-) As soon as it gets old though, its going out the window!

Good gaming everybody, may your local space be filled with beam cannon fire and the shattered hulls of warships!

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1) Pushing a ship "off the play area" reeks of poor sportsmanship. Don't do it.

 

2) Grav Weapons are without a doubt the best guns in the game. They ignore terrain and shoot giant holes in your opponent's morale. Pushing stuff around is a waste, IMHO.

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I'm of the opinion that if that big Tier 1 has been sat on the board edge for an entire turn, after coming in from reserves and had everything else in the enemy fleet activate before it, then it's asking to be chucked off the table (fair warning is knowing Tarakians are around and having a turn to do anything to avoid Grav Guns pushing a ship off the table). Chucking it off the table straight away is really damn harsh, though, so I'll be avoiding that (unless it's the Anarchist, that one ship can burn in the fiery depths of hell for all eternity. Nope, nope, nein, niet, non. The Anarchist can frak right off). That's why the 'can come back on later' clause should be added to Escalating Engagement. Alternately, Grav could be modded to remove the ability to chuck models off the table altogether. 

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I agree with both above points, I do feel it isn't in the spirit of the game do push a newly arrived model / squadron off the board edge, but I also feel that if you leave an opportunity for your opponent to gain an advantage for too long, it's your own fault if they do it,

 

Also, blasting through shields and cloaks and terrain and ripping things apart with the force of gravity is awesome. I don't always use gravity weapons, but when I do, I use damage mode*.

 

 

 

 

*Ignore the fact that I play Directorate and Turmoils have a MAR that prohibits the use of control mode.

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The other option if the ability to push ships off the table edge is something your group dislikes is to play with a gentleman's agreement that the non-Gravity player with keep all of their ships 6 inches or more away from all table edges at all times and the Gravity player will not organise chain gravity pushes to get you off the table (so no flying 2 cruiser squadrons into column to push a Dread/Battleship/Carrier/etc. off the table over 6 inches in a single turn).

 

I.e.: the non-Grav player plays pretending like the Grav guns will push them off the table while the Grav player doesn't try to actually do that.

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Or, if you feel like your friends might not want to play with your Tarakians because of that, you could just not use push/pull to knock them off the table and instead use it to hurt them.  Or at least aim for planets, which takes more setup and feels more rewarding to pull off, I'd imagine.  If your opponent views such things as against the spirit of the game, then by doing it, you are the one being the poor sport for clinging so tightly to RAW.  

 

If it's a tournament setting, then by all means.  Take the kid gloves off and win.  If it's casual, nothing saps the fun out of a game quite like having a big chunk of your list instantly destroyed just because the edge of their base was pushed a tiny bit off the edge of the table.  Please Grav responsibly.  With great weapons, comes great responsibility or some such rubbish.  

 

Note, this is from a non-Tarakian player's perspective with little FsA experience, and a TON of DW experience.  Losing a big ship turn 1 or 2 from what most would consider scummy tactics is a good way to not get invited to parties.   :P

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I've found grav push to be very situational, a clever opponent will not be hindered that much,

the main use i find for grav is ignore terrain/shield/cloak....just hiding behind terrain and blasting away is great...all in all lest damage output then dindrenzi for ex

but the free shooting through terrain makes up for a lot, had a game aggains terrans a while back and barely got hurt while i whiped the terrans off the table, it really helps

if you can shoot without impunity and ignore their shields before they even get a chance to take a clear shot.

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That's true, Xystophoroi, because of this on page 53:

If at the end of the Secondary Movement segment one or more models in the Squadron are outside of coherency, the Squadron is considered to be Disordered, as if it had failed a Disorder Test.

So while you can move a model away from its squadron mates such that they cannot benifit from extra PD, you probably won't be able to force disorder. However, this is how to can employ Gravity Push/Pull to force a Token off the table (page 90):

OUT OF COHERENCY

If, for any reason other than making an Attack Run or an Intercept Move, a SRS Token is outside of its parent Carrier’s Command Distance, it immediately Returns to Base.

So if the Carrier is shoved away from the Token, the Token can be forced to RTB.

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There are two basic rules when facing gravity weapons and tractor beams:

- Tight formations

- Avoid the table edge and planetoids

Of course, if there are nukes on the table, tight formations are probably not a good idea.

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Each model targeted with Torpedoes MUST use its own Point Defence Systems to defend itself. Any other models in its Squadron and within Command Distance of it may Link their Point Defence values with the target model.

The rule only states Command Distance, not disorder.

Only Command Distance is the determining factor for linking and Defensive Fire.

Disorder is a different game mechanic and obviously if a squadron is Disordered, PD cannot be linked either.

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I have 2 lots of the patrol fleet and I think they have of the the best cruisers.  All their weapons are indirect so you loose nothing on their attack dice whatever their damage!  A lot less worry on their part.  And plus grav weaponry is just evil.  I once pull a spider heavy cruiser into a planetoid and it simply became nothing...  

 

Their battleships are pretty much dreadnoughts in their own way, and with self-heal, nothing can go wrong!

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Regarding whether to or not..What's important is whether it's something Grav control weapons were designed to be capable of! If not then it's a use of the rules for a non conducive result (for the game itself and your opponent)

The rules allow it, sure but do they intend it?

Grav weapons in control mode can move ships. Ships that move off board count as destroyed. Ships arriving in the Escalating Engagement scenario have to be placed on the board edge. Ships can in reality be moved off the board by the Grav control effect.

All this is already known but I thought I'd describe it in a linearly dramatic mode!.

I just wonder, if there's a chance you could have that happen should you use BL to adjust the reserves roll for that unit??. That's not guaranteed to be effective though. Turn 3. You roll a 2 for your shiny BBs arrival. You are Dindrenzi. You have FTB 3 but you've still lost the initiative.

Tarakian squadron activates first. It's in the right place. Makes its attack. Enemy ship is moved. Off it goes. Its destroyed!. I know it's probably rare but that situation seems to be potentially unavoidable through no fault of the player.

That would not be good gaming imo!

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How many players had Gravity Weapons, though, and how much chance was there to complain? I think it's not many, and none, but push/pull shenanigans should never be a game plan with these weapons in he first place. It is strictly a tactical opportunity your opponent might accidently present.

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Sounds like a really good example of players deciding what's sensible.
Technically of course it's possible to cause a FSD rupture critical effect that moves a ship off of the board. Both are weapon effects. I know it's semantics really. Should the table edge be inviolable? Whenever a game has random move effects and an instant death table edge this unfortunate destruction is possible.
As far as RAW the table edge effect can be changed from instant destruction via scenario special rules. like all things it seems, easy to fix if you don't like it.

It does add to the pre game discussion needed though if it's unwritten. Like Voluntary Decompression which some seem to have taken as meaning it's voluntary to do!
Games used to have tons of optional and advanced rules for players to peruse over!
Again the issue of random pick up and play with people needing tight fair rules vs a player group who can decide by vote what they would like to do.
I personally would like to see more optional rules in games. TO's can set their own rules for participants anyway and I suspect most players would be able to cope with a simple checklist.

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The field was not flooded with grav. And they had all day to complain and every day since Adepticon. Complaints usually come almost immediately if they are going to show up.

Yes, Xen, there are other ways to have a ship fly off the board and those were all still allowed. It was just specifically grav weapons pushing a model off that was disallowed. FSD Ruptures, pushing models into Planetoids, and similar were all still valid technical kills.

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The accidental planetoid 'insertion' is always a possibility! I mean the odds of my Sorylian Hasta taking a crit, rolling that result (FSDR), rolling that direction, then, that distance. It could have gone anywhere but NOOO it has to go for a trip into the centre of a small moon hahah!

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The accidental planetoid 'insertion' is always a possibility! I mean the odds of my Sorylian Hasta taking a crit, rolling that result (FSDR), rolling that direction, then, that distance. It could have gone anywhere but NOOO it has to go for a trip into the centre of a small moon hahah!

My Cataphracts just don't like Hastas. I don't know why... At least it wasn't a repeat of the 36 hit Triple Critical Hit they managed to inflict on the Hastas ages back! 

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