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Target Lock Question

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1. I don't see anything which indicates they can't Target Lock as part of an Overwatch activation. Compare that to Hit and Run, which does specifically disallow Target Lock. (Overwatch allows a Main Ordnance Firing Action, which a Target Lock is). Note that this would still be Rushed, thus need a 5+ to hit.

 

2. This one seems a little less clear, because Target Lock is alternately referred to as "Target Lock Action" and "Target Lock Attack" in different sections in the rules. If it is an attack, then I see no reason why Hard Target would not apply, as it applies to "Main Ordnance Attacks." If it's only a "Target Lock Action", then I agree, Hard Target wouldn't affect it. But seems to me the rules are contradictory on this one.

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1. Overwatch allows you to perform an out of sequence Main Ordnance attack and Target Lock may only be attempted prior to a squadron firing a Main Ordnance attack, so RAW, yes, you can try to Target Lock an Overwatch volley.

HOWEVER....

The FAQ says this:

"A Nexus Designator cannot harm a target directly, but does perform its action in the Main Ordnance Segment."

So now we see that the Designator only perfoms an action in its Main Ordance segment, and Overwatch is resolved in your opponent's Movement segment, so RAW, no, you cannot try to Target Lock an Overwatch volley.

The FAQ trumps the rulebook, so the verdict seems to be a weak 'NO' because we have to infer this from rules that don't specifically address the situation.

Welcome to Planetfall. :)

2. This one is easier. No, Target Lock isn't affected by any modifiers. Roll Designator rating, count the 4+ successes, and consult the chart.

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Sadface that the FAQ stuff isn't incorporated in the digital rulebook, even though the digital rulebook is apparently later than the FAQ. :(

 

I have an easier time accepting no modifiers for it, though, because that does seem to be a lot more of the intent, and the one spot where it's called a "Target Lock Attack" is a pretty darn weak argument for making it subject to modifiers. ;) 

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In my digital rulebook it has that line from the FAQ. Page 78, bottom paragraph:

 

Nexus Designator
A Nexus Designator is NOT a weapon, but rather a piece of equipment
allocated to certain models to allow them to synergise with their
fellows both on the battlefield and in low orbit. A Nexus Designator
cannot harm a target directly, but does perform its action in the Main
Ordnance Segment.

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The always 4+'s thing was cleared here on the forums post the digital book.

 

The FAQ's validity is questionable at this point as it clears up the print book but contradicts the digital rulebook in places. Generally at best the FAQ is a guide as to how the game was once intended to go. We've basically accepted locally that the Nexus Designators fire as part of the squadron's Main Ordnance Actions, and therefore can fire during Overwatch.

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The way i've cleard that up in my head is that a Nexus Designator is not a MO weapon and thus isn't a MO attack, so the descriptions for Rushed and Placed do not apply to it, nor does any HT as they all reference making a Main Ordance Attack or Main Ordance weapons etc in some form, whilst a Nexus Designator is clearly stated as NOT being a MO Weapon in any regard and does not attack you.

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Well here's what I'm seeing if we want to go RAW nit picky rules lawyer wit the PDF rulebook:

  1. The Nexus Designator is clearly defined as a weapon in the PDF rulebook (pg 36 & 37)
  2. The Nexus Designator is clearly defined as NOT a weapon in the PDF rulebook (pg 78)
  3. Use of the Nexus Designator is described as a Firing Action more than once.
  4. Use of the Nexus Designator is described as a Designation Action more than once.
  5. It's normally used in the Main Ordnance Phase while making Firing Actions. (Multiple)
  6. It's independent of the Main Ordnance Firing. (pg 78)
  7. It's ALWAYS used before the rest of the unit's Firing Actions (Multiple)
  8. Overwatch allows a Main Ordnance Firing Action to be performed....

Wait...

There is no such thing as a Main Ordnance Firing Action... "Main Ordnance Firing Action" exists only twice in the rulebook, Overwatch and the Crystal Formation. There are tons of references to Main Ordnance Firing or to Firing Actions but with the exceptions of those two places that combination of 4 words bears no meaning by RAW. RAW nothing is done when a unit makes use of it's Overwatch, it cannot fire anything because there is no such action to perform.

 

So, for Overwatch to have any purpose we have to take an assumed or implied or inferred reading... AKA a Rules As Intended reading of the rules. Barring Derek dropping in and clearly answering this one we have to look at the facts above. The assumption we have to make is that it is implied that a "Main Ordnance Firing Action" is either the Firing Actions made during that phase or the Firing Actions made by Main Ordnance Weapons. Well guess what isn't defined in the rulebook? Main Ordnance Weapons... so either we assume another implied term that defines and differentiates between what Main Ordnance is and Nexus Designators, or we just go the route of allowing all the actions from the main ordnance phase to occur. One less assumption has to be made to allow the Nexus Designators to fire.

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Don't really agree with you on point 1, it states weapons AND nexus designators. If a Nexus Designator was a weapon, why differentiate it by saying AND bla bla? That to me clearly implies it is not a weapon, they just get listed under the weapon section, which is reinforced by point 2's reference.

 

The rest is a mess with Firing Actions and MO Firing Actions yes, needs to be cut down to just 1 phrase/term, but they're clearly NOT weapons.

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Well here comes the silly question: If a nexus designator is NOT a weapon (as stated on pg 78) then it can't be a Main Ordnance Weapon. So the question becomes, "Can a unit use it's Nexus Designators after declaring Overwatch or moving Flat Out?" The Main Ordnance Segment (PDF pg 99) of the book only bars Firing Attack Actions with Main Ordnance Weapons during the phase if the squadron moved Flat Out or set Overwatch. No limitation is put on other actions during the phase.

 

BTW, Firing Attack Action... also does not exist anywhere else in the book.

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I believe Derek has said else where you can Flat Out and fire a Nexus Designator? So pretty sure that has already been answered. The Overwatch is another thing entirely though as that is an out of sequence firing action, and you're suppose to do designators before a normal MO firing action but does that apply to out of sequence ones? I don't know.

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The catch becomes though; if you can't fire the Nexus Designators before every Main Ordnance Firing Action, it looks like due to the Overwatch/Flatout limitation line as written the designators can still fire normally so you don't lose the use of them that turn.

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Well here's what I'm seeing if we want to go RAW nit picky rules lawyer wit the PDF rulebook:

  1. The Nexus Designator is clearly defined as a weapon in the PDF rulebook (pg 36 & 37)

So answering these in order...

 

No it is not clearly defined as a weapon. The direct quote from Page 37, Digital rulebook, top of the page.... All weapons (and some esoteric technology such as Cyber Weapons or Nexus Designators) use the following simple set of statistics: so clearly defined as Esoteric Techonology.:

 

 

Well here comes the silly question: If a nexus designator is NOT a weapon (as stated on pg 78) then it can't be a Main Ordnance Weapon. So the question becomes, "Can a unit use it's Nexus Designators after declaring Overwatch or moving Flat Out?" The Main Ordnance Segment (PDF pg 99) of the book only bars Firing Attack Actions with Main Ordnance Weapons during the phase if the squadron moved Flat Out or set Overwatch. No limitation is put on other actions during the phase.

 

BTW, Firing Attack Action... also does not exist anywhere else in the book.

 

You missed the top of Page 79 that shows:

 

A model with a Nexus Designator may perform a Flat Out Movement Action and still use a Nexus Designator in the same Activation.
 
Finally the rules as currently printed around a target lock prior to Overwatching are unclear as the Target Lock rule states: 
 
Models with the Target Lock MAR may elect to target their Nexus Designator at an enemy Squadron prior to firing their Squadron’s Main Ordnance.
 
Alongside this from the Overwatch Rules (page 73)
 
If, at ANY point between the end of the Squadron’s Activation and the start of its next Activation, an opposing Squadron completes ANY Movement Action within the Fire Arc of one or more Models in the Squadron, those Models with Line of Sight can IMMEDIATELY perform an out-of-sequence Main Ordnance Firing Action against that opposing Squadron.

 

I agree it reads like you can use Target lock whilst on overwatch. However... being a little more local to Spartan Derek I did ask him this when we spoke yesterday and he stated that you cannot Target Lock whilst on Overwatch. So when it gets FAQ'd thats what I expect it to come down as. 

 

Hopefully that's something that we can get updated soon, but I believe Spartan have basically cracking the Whip over Derek about other things at the moment. 

 

On another note if you were to use Target lock during the overwatch action your Nexus Designator should only hit on 5's as shown by the Overwatch rules:

 

All Overwatch Fire is considered to be Rushed, and so has a starting To-Hit number of 5+. (Page 73)
 
Always love a good rules debate  :lol:

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