Jambobskiwobski Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 They are best at close range against mediums but they don't have the speed or survivability to get there. If they could dive it might be a different matter but I've never managed to get one close enough to the enemy to make the close combat work. If you have a friendly meta that doesn't always go for the most powerful option they might be ok, but not against an enemy who likes to stand off rather than close in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicius Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Well we'll see how it goes. They are a threat off course once they get close. I intend to run two of them together to spread the damage. A CAP is mandatory I think so a cheap carrier should accompany them. Looking further at the Metzger, I think it could use a speed boost or something like rugged (2) to make sure it makes it into enemy lines. Lets hope 2.5 brings buffs to these robots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veldrain Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Pair them together and rush them full speed at whatever is a good target. Honestly these things are horrible. You can't attach escorts because they are still armored and not naval, and they require fighter caps to protect their pitiful AA. At best you can run one as a distraction. Activate it first, rush full speed, and pray you plant a spear in something. If your opponent is foolish enough to ignore it then a Metzger may be useful, but relying on your opponent to be foolish is not the best tactic. They are pretty much the old Distraction-Carnifex, only not as good. The only way 2.5 is going buff this model is if Spartan finally gets around to balancing Armored with Naval. That is it. Metzger is an armored model that you are throwing into a naval game where similar priced models trounce him. His stats (AA & CC included) are geared to land levels. If Spartan stated him to complete with naval models then he would trounce most of the competing tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicius Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Hmmm not very hopefull comments I must say. I'd hoped they'd be at least decent. Well I guess the Rhine just jumped to the front of the painting queue. I can always use another carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazduruk_Bugzappa Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I do occasionally use them. They are pretty good as a supporting unit, especially as you can go straight over islands with them. However, I would suggest that you wait until you have some "walking" models before you include them in your fleet, otherwise you will forget that you can go straight over the island, which is why many people think that they aren't worth their points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 No, I think its not worth it's points because it just isn't worth it's points in Naval games. Land games, sure. They are pretty good there. Just not on the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presidente Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 No body mentioned tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicius Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 So what is letting the Metzger down then? Is it the slowish speed in combination with poor defences and secondary stats? Its secondary stats are roughly the same as a Sturmbringer. Giving it rugged(2) and maybe a slight boost in AA and CC and it should be fine I think. @Nazduruk_Bugzappa I intend to get two land models eventually. But for now I'm sticking with the waterlined ones. I think being able to move over an island is a great boonfor the Metzger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veldrain Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Everything is wrong with the Metzger. Since it costs 150 points let us first start with something cheaper, the Konigsberg. Stat wise the Konigsberg loses in DC, CR, and by 1HP while it is faster. It wins both AA and CC. The Konigsberg however wins firepower by a landslide. Both models have the same Speer AD while the Konigsbergs two turrets dominate the Metzgers sole tesla. Throw in some broadsides for the fun of it and the Konigsberg runs away laughing. As a final insult note the Metzger even has a higher SV cost. Now lets go with something you mentioned, the Sturmbringer. Cost, stats and defensive abilities are very close. Firepower again goes to the Sturmbringer though. They have the same AD in their Speers, but the sub has two of them. The bombard also outdoes the Metzgers tesla but not as severely as the Konigsberg did. One thing about these stats though, both models have entirely different roles. Low AA/CC is fine for the sub because it is supposed to sit back at RB2-3 and support everything else. The Metzger is supposed to run forward into the teeth of the enemy and tear things apart. This is where it's low AA really hurts it. Even with roughly the same stats, Metzger is still lacking for it's function while the Sturmbringer is pretty happy. The last two things are harder to gauge and rely more on your playstyle. Lets do movement first. I do find 360 movement useful on any model, while the ability to walk over islands is negligible. What are you honestly gaining? Immunity to torpedoes is nice but they are not the most common weapon and every turn you stand there your not getting much closer to your boarding targets. Worse, I consider his Altered Silhouette to be a drawback because now you have increased visibility without the offense to really take advantage of it. The bonuses are nowhere near worth the forty point difference against the Konigsberg, Next up are those boarding abilities. How much do you value this in a fleet where everything except the Sturmbringer also has decent boarding potential? For me, the Metzger does not belong in the water. Period. End of story. It's an iconic model that is let down by the fact it belongs to the less popular theater. If they rebalance the land models to bring them more inline with naval this may change, it that hasn't happened yet and I don't have any faith that it ever will. If you don't play the land game much, look through their stats. Then see what any proposed buffs to the Metzger would look like on that side of the field. Merlin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicius Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Well with some minor buffs to its secondary stats and a slight movement bonus it might be worth its points without overpowering in the armoured theater. I know that powerlevels are lower in armoured. However by upping its AA and CC its is still domething that can be killed in Armoured while being more usefull in land. But you're right. All multipurpose land models suffer from this I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 32 minutes ago, Nicius said: But you're right. All multipurpose land models suffer from this I guess. Except the Dreadbots (but they are broken in any case) and, as far as I have experienced, the Ottoman Mobile Airfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleones Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 As someone who plays a lot of Armored-core Dystopian Wars, the Metzger is still pretty "meh" stomping around on ol' Terra Firma. Compared to an A9-V for the same 150 points, it's simply a travesty. To improve the Metz and make it worth a tinker's damn, SG should either: 1) Reduce points cost by 30-40 and remove Strategic Objective (50) which is presumably a mistyped version of Strategic Value (50) 2) Increase its speed to 9 inches 3) Give it a Shield Generator (2) Personally, the speed boost seems like the best value. It can put that 360-degree movement flexibility and good close-assault MARs to use. McKinstry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicius Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 With the speed boost and the tesla it can go 12 inches max in a turn. Thats fast for a large. I will give the Metzger a test run and see how it goes. Not sure if I can get that in before 2.5 hits though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herezjohny Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I've got a 1500 list purely built around the Scandinavian Teutonic Order. I hope it will go well, its got 4 Battle robots and one of the command variant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDR_G Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 It needs a big defensive boost or a big speed boost--really both. 6" move makes irrelevant in a boarding situation. Rugged construction (2), if not (3) would help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herezjohny Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 On 24/02/2017 at 5:15 AM, CDR_G said: It needs a big defensive boost or a big speed boost--really both. 6" move makes irrelevant in a boarding situation. Rugged construction (2), if not (3) would help I can move a possible 9 but with help from the tesla generator. I think it needs to be tougher or seem tougher, I agree with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDR_G Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 MV = 8 Somewhere between current Ausf -B and the Saint Michael Pattern Metzger MV = 8 CR 10 HP = 8 Rugged construction (2) Add a RB 3 AD of 6 for the R-Arm Tesla Coil Option of Shield or Calcification Generator AA 4 / CC 4 10 point increase Specialty Squadron: One Metzger AUSF-B and two Speerwurf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazduruk_Bugzappa Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 1 hour ago, CDR_G said: Specialty Squadron: One Metzger AUSF-B and two Speerwurf Looks more like a STO specialist squad. (Odin, with Huginn and Muninn) Farcages, Hubcap and Yasbir 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsiegel1983 Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I have only used the Metzger in Naval games. I run them in pairs and watch them get shot to pieces before getting in boarding range. I managed to get one to board a medium ship on time and rolled absolute ****. I have never played land games in dystopian wars. Are they any good on land? Anyone try the STO robots in land battles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazduruk_Bugzappa Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 5 hours ago, Jsiegel1983 said: I have only used the Metzger in Naval games. I run them in pairs and watch them get shot to pieces before getting in boarding range. I managed to get one to board a medium ship on time and rolled absolute ****. I have never played land games in dystopian wars. Are they any good on land? Anyone try the STO robots in land battles? My entire "Prussian" ground forces are just STO robots. Hubcap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahariel Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 I find them easily killed even while on ground battles. They..... Need a bit of a buff Hubcap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDR_G Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Geese, start over. It needs to be survivable while it approaches. Why a menacing evil robot is as weak as a carrier is lost to me. 6 Dr -10 Cr with 8 HP (yes like a BB) and Rugged Construction (2). Possibly up its AP. Price as needed. But, overprice it and it won't be used. The point is to design stats to get one of the most iconic models of DW back into the fight. Its a hit magnet, embrace that. Fiddle with its threat if you must but it has to be enough of a short range threat to make it worthwhile. Shaffer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
