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Fedora71

The Metzger

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They are best at close range against mediums but they don't have the speed or survivability to get there.  If they could dive it might be a different matter but I've never managed to get one close enough to the enemy to make the close combat work.

If you have a friendly meta that doesn't always go for the most powerful option they might be ok, but not against an enemy who likes to stand off rather than close in. 

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Well we'll see how it goes. They are a threat off course once they get close. I intend to run two of them together to spread the damage. A CAP is mandatory I think so a cheap carrier should accompany them. 

Looking further at the Metzger, I think it could use a speed boost or something like rugged (2) to make sure it makes it into enemy lines. Lets hope 2.5 brings buffs to these robots!

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Pair them together and rush them full speed at whatever is a good target.

Honestly these things are horrible.  You can't attach escorts because they are still armored and not naval, and they require fighter caps to protect their pitiful AA.  At best you can run one as a distraction.  Activate it first, rush full speed, and pray you plant a spear in something.  If your opponent is foolish enough to ignore it then a Metzger may be useful, but relying on your opponent to be foolish is not the best tactic.

They are pretty much the old Distraction-Carnifex, only not as good.

 

The only way 2.5 is going buff this model is if Spartan finally gets around to balancing Armored with Naval.  That is it.  Metzger is an armored model that you are throwing into a naval game where similar priced models trounce him.  His stats (AA & CC included) are geared to land levels.  If Spartan stated him to complete with naval models then he would trounce most of the competing tanks.

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I do occasionally use them. They are pretty good as a supporting unit, especially as you can go straight over islands with them.

However, I would suggest that you wait until you have some "walking" models before you include them in your fleet, otherwise you will forget that you can go straight over the island, which is why many people think that they aren't worth their points.

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So what is letting the Metzger down then? Is it the slowish speed in combination with poor defences and secondary stats? Its secondary stats are roughly the same as a Sturmbringer. 

Giving it rugged(2) and maybe a slight boost in AA and CC and it should be fine I think.

@Nazduruk_Bugzappa I intend to get two land models eventually. But for now I'm sticking with the waterlined ones. I think being able to move over an island is a great boonfor the Metzger.

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Everything is wrong with the Metzger.

Since it costs 150 points let us first start with something cheaper, the Konigsberg.  Stat wise the Konigsberg loses in DC, CR, and by 1HP while it is faster.  It wins both AA and CC.  The Konigsberg however wins firepower by a landslide.  Both models have the same Speer AD while the  Konigsbergs two turrets dominate the Metzgers sole tesla.  Throw in some broadsides for the fun of it and the Konigsberg runs away laughing.  As a final insult note the Metzger even has a higher SV cost. 

Now lets go with something you mentioned, the Sturmbringer.  Cost, stats and defensive abilities are very close.  Firepower again goes to the Sturmbringer though.  They have the same AD in their Speers, but the sub has two of them.  The bombard also outdoes the Metzgers tesla but not as severely as the Konigsberg did.  One thing about these stats though, both models have entirely different roles.  Low AA/CC is fine for the sub because it is supposed to sit back at RB2-3 and support everything else.  The Metzger is supposed to run forward into the teeth of the enemy and tear things apart.  This is where it's low AA really hurts it.  Even with roughly the same stats, Metzger is still lacking for it's function while the Sturmbringer is pretty happy.

The last two things are harder to gauge and rely more on your playstyle.  Lets do movement first.  I do find 360 movement useful on any model, while the ability to walk over islands is negligible.  What are you honestly gaining?  Immunity to torpedoes is nice but they are not the most common weapon and every turn you stand there your not getting much closer to your boarding targets.  Worse, I consider his Altered Silhouette to be a drawback because now you have increased visibility without the offense to really take advantage of it.  The bonuses are nowhere near worth the forty  point difference against the Konigsberg,  Next up are those boarding abilities.  How much do you value this in a fleet where everything except the Sturmbringer also has decent boarding potential?

For me, the Metzger does not belong in the water.  Period.  End of story.  It's an iconic model that is let down by the fact it belongs to the less popular theater.  If they rebalance the land models to bring them more inline with naval this may change, it that hasn't happened yet and I don't have any faith that it ever will.

If you don't play the land game much, look through their stats.  Then see what any proposed buffs to the Metzger would look like on that side of the field.

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Well with some minor buffs to its secondary stats and a slight movement bonus it might be worth its points without overpowering in the armoured theater.

I know that powerlevels are lower in armoured. However by upping its AA and CC its is still domething that can be killed in Armoured while being more usefull in land.

But you're right. All multipurpose land models suffer from this I guess.

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As someone who plays a lot of Armored-core Dystopian Wars, the Metzger is still pretty "meh" stomping around on ol' Terra Firma. Compared to an A9-V for the same 150 points, it's simply a travesty. To improve the Metz and make it worth a tinker's damn, SG should either:

1) Reduce points cost by 30-40 and remove Strategic Objective (50) which is presumably a mistyped version of Strategic Value (50)

2) Increase its speed to 9 inches

3) Give it a Shield Generator (2)

Personally, the speed boost seems like the best value. It can put that 360-degree movement flexibility and good close-assault MARs to use.

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On 24/02/2017 at 5:15 AM, CDR_G said:

It needs a big defensive boost or a big speed boost--really both. 6" move makes irrelevant in a boarding situation. Rugged construction (2), if not (3) would help

I can move a possible 9 but with help from the tesla generator.  I think it needs to be tougher or seem tougher, I agree with you there.

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MV = 8

 

Somewhere between current Ausf -B and the Saint Michael Pattern Metzger

MV = 8

CR 10 

HP = 8

Rugged construction (2)

Add a RB 3 AD of 6 for the R-Arm Tesla Coil

Option of Shield or Calcification Generator

AA 4 / CC 4

10 point increase

Specialty Squadron: One Metzger AUSF-B and two Speerwurf

 

 

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I have only used the Metzger in Naval games.  I run them in pairs and watch them get shot to pieces before getting in boarding range.  I managed to get one to board a medium ship on time and rolled absolute ****.  I have never played land games in dystopian wars.  Are they any good on land?  Anyone try the STO robots in land battles?    

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5 hours ago, Jsiegel1983 said:

I have only used the Metzger in Naval games.  I run them in pairs and watch them get shot to pieces before getting in boarding range.  I managed to get one to board a medium ship on time and rolled absolute ****.  I have never played land games in dystopian wars.  Are they any good on land?  Anyone try the STO robots in land battles?    

My entire "Prussian" ground forces are just STO robots.

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Geese, start over. It needs to be survivable while it approaches. Why a menacing evil robot is as weak as a carrier is lost to me.

6 Dr -10 Cr with 8 HP (yes like a BB) and Rugged Construction (2). Possibly up its AP. Price as needed. But, overprice it and it won't be used.

The point is to design stats to get one of the most iconic models of DW back into the fight.

Its a hit magnet, embrace that. Fiddle with its threat if you must but it has to be enough of a short range threat to make it worthwhile.

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