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Fuzzi99

ETA on the allied ORBATS?

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Once again we find ourselves not only let down by spartan, but also largely kept in the dark as to even a rough timescale as when we will see an update aluded to in September.

The companies lines of communication have changed drastically over the last 12 months and I will openly say, its entirely for the worse.

Perhaps we think we are entitled and thus overly spoiled. However i know from my own job in a very high pace environment that the worst thing you can do is over promise and underachieve

I dont think we as a community would have some of the complaints we do if Spartan didnt keep making a rod for their own backs by saying several things and not doing any of them

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I guess the thing is are people going to leave the game because the rules had not be released.  I think not. Most of us enjoy the game because of the fact that it is better than a game we will not name that has be revised, revised, revised, revised, and then thrown out for a whole new system.

We should more so be thinking that the rules may come out at the same time as the release of the British and FSA Dreadnoght Robot next week (18.12.15) as this would cause the IT guy needing to upload all the data once rather than twice.

Of course this is my own opinion and in some ways a prediction.

 

as for the issue with suppliers i am in Australia, (Downunder side of the world) and yes i hear all the jokes about things going backwards, etc.  But my supplier has always been very good in getting in most if not everything i have asked for within a period of 2 weeks.  the Supplier's Wholesaler, that gets the stuff from Spartan, has been very good as well in getting items from Spartan.  I there is an issue with getting spartan stuff from a local you may find it better to shop around for online retailers or even from Spartan Direct. 

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Ozysturn: Would you be talking about the British dreadbot that was removed from the web store pre-order list with zero explanation?

 

I hold out zero hope of Spartan getting there act together.

 

Also, unless there system is absolutely backwards uploading the pdfs is a few clicks at most.  The ally stats should have zero reliance on the stats for the bots. 

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All of the online shops I've checked show the Windsor as a January release pre-order.  The only pre-orders I see on Spartan's shop is for next week.  So if they don't normally pre-order that far out that could be why.  If it was originally going to be released earlier then there is probably some production issues.  Does Spartan make all of their models in house or do they do the designing and have them cast somewhere else?  If they are cast somewhere else they might be legally bound from saying much of anything about it.

Which could actually be a lot of the changes.  With Halo being as big as it is in brand power and being part of a large company Spartan has probably had to work with a lot more lawyers lately.  Lawyers always get in the way.  And it wouldn't be surprising if lawyers advised them to not talk about many things they may have talked about before.

 

As for the allied ORBATS, I would much rather have them late and good than on-time and rushed, especially if they'll then be updated quite a bit after that.  Given how many there are that is a lot of potentially play testing and tweaking.  And if they've learned anything (from themselves and every other game company) a very thorough double and triple check of the rules by many different people is needed.  And looking at how all of these allies can be taken very easily in other core nations, that is a lot of balance to look at and a lot of possible unforeseen combos.  Maybe it is just some of the allies that are still being looked at, and while they might be able to just release some, if they did that instead of all of them, you would hear even more doom and gloom from some people.  As such, it really seems like their in a no-win situations with their fans, no matter which route they took there would be some people complaining about it.

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They could win everything if they learned the definition of "communication".

 

I can handle things being delayed.  I can understand some ideas simply being scrapped (Canadian Airfield was a model well over a year ago).  All I ask is them actually opening their mouth.

 

Erloas,Spartan makes their resin and metal parts in house.  Halo plastics are produced elsewhere.  And what would lawyers for Halo even have to do with game systems that have zero interaction with the Halo IP?  Do you even read what you wrote here.  Bottom line is they missed their own deadline for the allied orbats by two months and we have absolutely nothing but silence since.

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If the lawyers they hired while working out the things with Halo said "communicating these sorts of things about your games/company opens you up to potential legal issues" then they would stop communicating those sorts of things for all of their game systems. 

 

Having taken quite a few liability sort of training classes over the years, they so often stress about what can get communicated out of the company, and who can do that communication.

 

Also having followed many different games, in many different mediums, from the companies that tell you almost nothing to the ones with many "behind the scenes" discussions and videos.  No matter what their justification is for changes and how transparent they are about them, they still get all sorts of **** from their customers/potential customers.  In many cases the quiet companies come out ahead because no one knows what they were thinking about doing and what they ended up changing, no one gets made at them for removing X because they never knew X was a possibility.  But if you tell someone a potential idea you'll get some people that say it is the greatest thing ever, some that say it is going to ruin the game and they will never play it, others complaining that it means their taking focus away from their preferred aspect K, and others that don't care.  I'm not sure about all things, but the gaming community is very un-supportive of their companies.  At least to the company itself, they might defend it like crazy against some other group that likes Company B better, but you're more likely to see complaints than anything else on anything they might think the company is looking at.

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It isn't the type of communication, but the content of it.  I haven't checked out their podcasts or interviews, so I don't know for sure.  But most places never really talk about specific production delays (usually nothing more than "we had to push X back"), they might talk about beta and playtesting, but they never really give specifics about what did and didn't work and what changed.

 

For the Windsor I don't think we've seen a cast model, just the computer models.  If they are having troubles figuring out how to get a good cast that isn't likely the sort of thing any company would give information on.  A lot of people like the model too, maybe their pre-orders have passed what they can expect to get done in a reasonable amount of time for production, also not the sort of thing a company would share. 

Most of the sorts of things that would hold up the release of the ORBATS are also the sorts of issues that don't get public releases.

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As i said earlier.....they create there own problems by saying a rough timescale.....then failing, then not saying a word.

Madame Liberty was a prime example.....took two weeks after the initial supposed deadline to get it, with no word after repeated questions as to when....

My question is this.....can you really afford to alienate potential customers through poor management of something as simple and easy as communication??

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Its not a great advert for people who want to collect alliance nations, is it:

 

-receive new models every solar eclipse

-be left behind as the core nations sweep you aside with more and more powerful ships

-if critical core game updates break your lists, expect updates after a year or so....

 

Im probably missing a few :P

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Its not a great advert for people who want to collect alliance nations, is it:

 

-receive new models every solar eclipse

-be left behind as the core nations sweep you aside with more and more powerful ships

-if critical core game updates break your lists, expect updates after a year or so....

 

Im probably missing a few :P

 

You probably haven´t played games from GamesWorkshop. They sometimes did´t update rules for some races for several editions.

Spartans are great at this as they update the ORBATS as soon as possible and there is a reason why are some nations called major and some minor. You are just acting as spoiled child.

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You probably haven´t played games from GamesWorkshop. They sometimes did´t update rules for some races for several editions.

Spartans are great at this as they update the ORBATS as soon as possible and there is a reason why are some nations called major and some minor. You are just acting as spoiled child.

 

Whilst presednete Bashing is a past time of mine........Actually he played Gamesworkshop games for about 20 odd years, so is well versed in that rubbish.

 

However there is a key difference here, those games stayed relatively in balance as only 1 book would be updated at a time, what happens here is half the game gets updated, then the other half, sometime months later.

 

I think the complaints coming are more from the fact we havent heard anything........nothing, nada, ziltch , zippo

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Well the Danes, Chinese, EIMC, Black Wolf and others are perfectly playable as far as I know. What changed so they are not useable any more? Only the Ottomans are slightly less powerfull than the rest of nations (the Sickman of Bospor aparantly) but even with them you could beat major nations. I tried it and did it.

 

Nothing changed in the core mechanics, none of the minor nations is hopelessly lost so why the fuzz? Spartan games are in my experience well balanced and really often updated.

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The fuss is that Spartan gave a time of when to expect something to be updated. That deadline, while pretty vague on an actual date, gave the update to be a month after the most recent update in September.

That deadline came and went and we are just wanting to know when the update is likely to be made. Its not like they haven't lost the ability to update them now, since on the 16th November they updated the CoA Orbat.

What we want is an answer as to why they weren't released in October, as promised, and when will they be released to us finally?

The lack of communication only frustrates us more.

GW could get away this since they refuse to talk publicly about anything. The gaming community understands this and never expects to hear anything from GW.

Spartan started out with very open communication with the fans and the fanbase loved that about them. All of a sudden they are staying quiet and not talking to anyone, about anything, unless its on the blog, which is not updated frequently.

We are frustrated because they were very active in communicating with us, even on the forum. They rarely missed a deadline, and if they did they would have been straight onto the forum, or blog, to tell us why they couldn't make the deadline.

I will concede that there is nothing wrong with the game. Some factions are perfectly fine, some are serviceable, some need work but are just about usable.

All we would ask for is an explanation as to why the deadline was missed. Even if it was just a few lines. Nothing much. But the lack of anything on the subject is just going to make the community even more frustrated when they have known Spartan to be much better than this.

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@Bratr It's not so much of how efficient/good all of the alliance/minor nations are currently.  When someone is told that X will be available at Y time, and when Y time passes without any answer/reason why people get upset.  Works like that in the business world, it works here.  All we want is an answer to why there is a delay, or simply release the stuff immediately.  The delay of a release that has been announced is something that even GW practically never does for their miniature games.  So one should understand other's frustrations.

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However there is a key difference here, those games stayed relatively in balance as only 1 book would be updated at a time, what happens here is half the game gets updated, then the other half, sometime months later.

GW games never really stayed balanced with the way books were done.  There were several armies in both systems that were almost unplayable for close to a decade.  There were often very specific builds in those books that could win games but they were very one-dimensional and had very little room for personalization.  There were also huge changes in how the games were played between editions and there was never any guarantee that your army would be any good in the new system and outside of a couple pet races you had no idea if you would have to wait 1 year or 5 for the next update to your army.

I know a lot of time the recommended advice for new players starting either system was simply to avoid a few of the armies because they weren't any good and no one had any idea when that might change.

To get off GW though...

 

Having thought about it, I think the expectations of most gamers to pick one nation and play only that, doesn't really fall in line with what the designers envisioned.  I think the alliance nations weren't really designed to be completely on their own.  Most only really have the option of one theater of operation.  Like many of the sea forces would struggle against a force that took a lot of air units.  I think most of the allied nations were designed with the idea that they would be supporting or supported by units from the core nations.  As such, being a bit out of date overall, they can still take some parts from a core nation to fix those problems.

 

*Of course that is just my feeling for how they were designed, and isn't necessarily the case.  And I know a lot of people probably prefer a one-country build.

 

I'm in 100% agreement that it sucks that they missed the time frame they said they would get them released in.  And I do think it would be nice if they said something about it, not any specifics about why it was delayed but a large window guess at when it would be done would be good.  Something like 1Q 2016 or 1st Half 2016. 

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I'm sure they are working to try and get the ORBATS out for everyone and want to be sure they are good to go when released. Mistakes have been made before with ORBAT releases and missing model functions and MARS and want to get it right.

The frustration is understandable because they were mentioned of a big update and set a time frame (roughly) that wasn't met. Also no response from the company has been made adding to the frustration.

It's tough to ask but can we as a community be patient for a little bit longer until the update happens and in the mean time have fun with what the company has already given us (current models and stats).

Of course this is much easier said than done.

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I think there is one thing people have to realise: It's getting close to the holiday season and I'm sure that Spartan is very likely at its busiest right now.

 

The fact that they're knee deep in all sorts of orders (hopefully for them) means that they probably don't have a lot of time for anything else right now.

 

It also means that I wouldn't hold my breath for any ORBAT updates in this calendar year. I would be very suprised if that happened.

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Small company during Xmas with a Halo franchise.  I would not expect anything until after the new year and if there is something earlier then I can be pleasantly surprised!

 

I'm thankful that these guys continue to push out amazing models (except for the Russian Robot Dread sigh) so if they are a few months late on some rules then so be it.

 

DK

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