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ORBAT Updates?

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I always thoug that cloak should only work in LR. Just like the Hover hard target bonus.

And the hard target bonus for hover, only if they move in their activation and before their first activation (like flyers)

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Skydrop markers could reset after use with a log point spent to prevent it. Arty can be changed to remove not the marker used but one on the table.

Perhapse make both arty and skydrop pull markers with a log spent to prevent the removal or allow a different maker to be pulled.

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Sky Drop has already taken a thumping in the new updates, especially for the Dindrenzi who now start at 5,and had large numbers of their nexus designators AD decreased, so I don't think it needs to be any more difficult.

Artillery though, I would like to see the Double Nexus designators either disappear, or get a serious AD drop (to like 3, so you can combine for 6 to zero it in, try and fluke it with a 3AD then drop...) and also see everyone's artillery pushed to an least 5 like the Sky Drop markers were.

As it stands, artillery seems to be the best alpha-strike in the game. With the double designators, you can drop a zeroed in artillery on the very first turn. And then every turn after. And there is absolutely no way to defend or stop it. That is way worse than even sky-dropping Nyx.

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Sky Drop has already taken a thumping in the new updates, especially for the Dindrenzi who now start at 5,and had large numbers of their nexus designators AD decreased, so I don't think it needs to be any more difficult.

Artillery though, I would like to see the Double Nexus designators either disappear, or get a serious AD drop (to like 3, so you can combine for 6 to zero it in, try and fluke it with a 3AD then drop...) and also see everyone's artillery pushed to an least 5 like the Sky Drop markers were.

As it stands, artillery seems to be the best alpha-strike in the game. With the double designators, you can drop a zeroed in artillery on the very first turn. And then every turn after. And there is absolutely no way to defend or stop it. That is way worse than even sky-dropping Nyx.

Arent markers used for artillary removed once they are used? Which would prevent the bombardment every turn.

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They are removed, but its the ability to deploy something like 8 of them all through your opponents deployment zone, then start zeroing and dropping them on the very first activation that I think needs looking at. It's just not fun, as there isn't a way to stop it, as even if you get an activation up first, you can move one squadron hopefully out of range of a marker, but seeing as there is usually half a dozen other ones, its kind of a null point... :P

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I'm on the other side of the argument. I think artillery is pretty hit or miss and can often be a pretty big loss in points if it fails. Originally, people complained that they weren't accurate enough. Now it seems some people are saying the exact opposite. I think they are fine right where they are.

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Yes, you have a way to stop the artillery. One way that can't be taken to stop Skydrop.

Destroy the vehicles with Nexus Designator. Without they, artillery markers are anything.

I'm yet to find a way to destroy an 8+7+6 Heavy Walker with 2 Shields in one activation... Then it immediately zero-es and drops any one of the ~8 Artillery tokens buried in my deployment zone (as it has 36" range, and requires no LoS to Zero or drop artillery, and two 5AD Nexus Designators). Then, you generally have 1-2 more activations before another one drops into your deployment zone.

Really, it's the Dual Designators that are the issue. The ability to Zero and drop in one activation needs to be looked at. Even Sky Drop can't zero and drop immediately (although I'd love for a unit to get that ability! :P ), yet people endlessly complain about that. So I do think we need to look at the ability for some models to do that with Artillery. Even reducing the AD at least makes it a decision for the Artillery player, rather than 'zero and drop'

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Sky drop a heavy ground attack gunship squadron behind it? 24 terrifying attack dice in the rear arc could feasibly do the trick. Of course, you kinda want to do this at the end of the first turn once everything else has activated. 

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Sky drop a heavy ground attack gunship squadron behind it? 24 terrifying attack dice in the rear arc could feasibly do the trick. Of course, you kinda want to do this at the end of the first turn once everything else has activated. 

Well, so far only Aquans can do that, and you are trying to drop on an un-Zeroed Sky Drop marker (set at 4 if it's Aquans) that's probably about 4" from the board edge. That's an insane Hail Mary shot for the first activation of the game, and this still would only deal with one target, leaving any other Dual Designators to then activate instead and Zero-and-drop...

I don't think Artillery itself is broken, I just think Dual Designators need a look, as there is no thought or skill to them as they stand. It's just 'I'm going to severely damage parts of your army in it's deployment zone, and there is nothing you can do to stop it'

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Huh I hardly see arty ever do anything anyway. What do you play that you cannot kill this unit? Most TDs, Heavy supports, drop infantry, or Leviathens can deal with this. Skydrop units can drop first activation or possibly zeroed in on the second activation. If you have alot of skydrop yourself use some to disrupt his arty placement. Bring Log points to get the first move and clear the area.

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Sorylians only get duel designatores out of the heavys so you are not facing a Leviathen for 3 rounds just a single armored sized unit you can easily hide from. One shot arty is a dair price to pay considering the Levi is putting out the average arty AD a turn with just the 48" guns while also having 12AD pinpoint2 at 40".

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Which is still not much of a change. Just had to watch 2 separate lost with 8 skydrop markers. On was Realthozan and the other was Dindrenzi. That was just at 3k and you think it is hard to remove 1 of maybe 2 units in a list with designators try ones with 3 or 2 ablative models between you.

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Huh I hardly see arty ever do anything anyway. What do you play that you cannot kill this unit? Most TDs, Heavy supports, drop infantry, or Leviathens can deal with this. Skydrop units can drop first activation or possibly zeroed in on the second activation. If you have alot of skydrop yourself use some to disrupt his arty placement. Bring Log points to get the first move and clear the area.

 

Seeing as the artillery is zeroed and dropping on the first activation, how do you stop this? My Dindrenzi and Terrans can't reach them with anything that can wipe them off the table in one activation, and then down  I can't even do this with Sky Drop, and that has the base dice increased, and Nexus Designator AD dropped (I'm looking at my Dindrenzi). The Sorylian Heavy Support tank not only has a longer range, higher AD Designator, it also gets 2 of them to unleash artillery with.

I'm not saying we need to modify Artillery rules as they stand, simply tackle the issue in the same way as the issue with Sky Drop, a decrease in Nexus AD and an increase in the Artillery Starting Dice. That would at least make the Artillery player have to telescope his actions (by zeroing the turn before dropping by combining them), or gamble that his lower AD will zero it in (declare one designator zeroing, the other dropping, then rolling to see the result of the zeroing).

It'd make Artillery more tactical, and less un-fun to play against when it's spammed. :D

 

 

Sorylians only get duel designatores out of the heavys so you are not facing a Leviathen for 3 rounds just a single armored sized unit you can easily hide from. One shot arty is a dair price to pay considering the Levi is putting out the average arty AD a turn with just the 48" guns while also having 12AD pinpoint2 at 40".

You can get 2 Heavy Support Walkers for 200 points less than the a Leviathan, and then bring double Veydreth Recon Helix for another bunch of Artillery markers. This is in addition to Artillery always hitting the rear arc, and ignoring Defensive MARs... Thats 2 artillery strikes in the first 2 activations right inside your deployment zone that you can do nothing to stop... That's whats frustrating and boring to play against.

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If they reduce the range and AD of Nexus Designators that is a HUGE change.

 

It means

 

* Races that rely on long range for protection ala Relthoza, Dindrenzi and Aquans have to get closer - sacrificing protection.

 

* Races have to sacrifice getting closer for a turn - and spend a turn not getting the further sky drops zero'd in. This is HUGE.

 

* Reduction in AD is also big. Going from 5 or 6 to maybe 3 or 4 is big. Don't under estimate that.

 

Combined with the increase on the Sky Drop initial numbers for all races it will make Sky Drop much harder to pull off.

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Perhaps sky drop should pull markers like arty? You cannot justify ships hovering in orbit to launch units at one point while not being able to do the same for arty markers. If anything I think using either skydrop marker should perhaps make a removal of a similar marker not the marker. Or you could have them stay but reset the zero in dice unless a log point is spent.

Anyhow their needs to be some order to this overwatch bid thing. Maybe when Tacs are chosen each player makes a secret bid for number of Log points spent that is revealed with the TACs. Also revealing the target of tacs who does this first as it can make a large change in tactics.

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Note that I'm actually looking at Artillery, not Sky Drop. And only units with Dual Designators in particular, as these are capable of doing the Zero with 5AD (pretty easy on an Artillery Marker set to 4) and then immediately drop it as well. Units with a single Designator aren't really that much of an issue with artillery, as you still need to Zero the turn before you drop the artillery, so they can probably be left alone with a higher AD (probably same as they stand)

Sky Drop has already been hit with the reduced AD and increased starting dice. Artillery for some reason though was left alone though, even though they also get access to Dual Designators. 
 

 

Perhaps sky drop should pull markers like arty? You cannot justify ships hovering in orbit to launch units at one point while not being able to do the same for arty markers. If anything I think using either skydrop marker should perhaps make a removal of a similar marker not the marker. Or you could have them stay but reset the zero in dice unless a log point is spent.
Anyhow their needs to be some order to this overwatch bid thing. Maybe when Tacs are chosen each player makes a secret bid for number of Log points spent that is revealed with the TACs. Also revealing the target of tacs who does this first as it can make a large change in tactics.

Except, you can have way more Sky Drop Units than Sky Drop Markers, as they are unrelated. And you would then have to drop the Logisitics Points costs for Dindrenzi (as 30 points EXTRA to simply deploy a unit is insane... We already pay 35 points and provide TV from a unit we can't even activate simply to deploy a unit).

I think Sky Drop feels OK where it is, it's Dual Designators and their interactions with Artillery Markers that really need examining.

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