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Poll For Adepticon Points Level

What Points Level Would You Prefer for a Four Round Adepticon Tournament?  

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As was said in another topic: http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/16232-adepticon-2016-the-2nd-schaumburg-prime-offensive/

The Michigan Crew is hard at work planning The Schaumburg Prime Offensive at Adepticon. I talked about 1000 points this year, but given a choice between 800, 900 and 1000, what point level would you want to play in at Adepticon in a 4 round tournament?

I am also developing a Planetfall tournament if there is enough interest.

Take the Survey over at the Waygate!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/489065437894545/

I will also post a poll up here for those of us without Facebook acounts (including me). If you're passionate about your points level, vote in both places! :)

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So vote early and often?

My vote is for 800, because:

- The game is very balanced at this point value

- Generally fewer activations, so faster games

- the only units being excluded are Dreadnoughts, Battlecarriers (unless you play Mauraders), and Battlecruiser Squadrons

However, the Rulebook suggests a 4'x4' table for this point value. I'm used to this, and generally have a Dindrenzi field day on a 6'x4' at this point level. I'm not sure if ya'll care about table size; that could be another poll.

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When we did our original analysis, 800 point games were actually slightly slower on average than 900 point games. We assumed that the slight bump in firepower with negligible increase in ship count was the main contributing factor.

If 800 points wins out in the polls, then we'll talk about board size. Right now, I'm not really worried about it.

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Ive found that 1000 points actually plays equal to or faster than 800 points while giving players access to their whole set of fleet options (battle carriers and dreadnoughts).  That one extra squadron of T1s or 2s or 2 Squadrons of T3s over 800 points really makes the game that much more deadly.

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I think the only difference often ends up as trading up to the Battlecarrier or Dreadnought, which basically means you have to build a list with something to kill a Dreadnought if you don't bring one yourself.

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I can't debate that, but I have trouble seeing how some factions don't have viable builds at 800. Maybe limited builds options, but that doesn't mean they can't do well.

Sure, some factions don't have a viable Tier 1 at 800, but that will change by Adepticon.

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Unless I'm forgetting something, the Terquai and Xelocians are the only factions, today, which do not have a Patrol Fleet Tier 1 option. They were both announced as receiving a new Tier 1 about a month ago; Terquai Patrol Boxes will start arriving at your store or home in the next week or two.

Granted, the Traders, OmniDyne, and Corsairs don't either, but they simply don't have models available, so they don't count. I would hope they'd all have a Patrol Fleet box available by Adepticon.

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Actually Traders are the only ones from Mercenaries as they have a Battle Station that can be used above 800 only. OmniDyne has Executive Battleship and Corsairs have Rocketeer Battle Carrier, both legal in a Patrol fleet - they don't have models, but the option is there.

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I am thinking that 900 is a more sensible 801 point list. It lets you take a Battle Fleet but holds the points back from the full 1000.

Besides if you offer a mid-range choice to people, someone will take it.

Not that I would pick 900. But now that I have a dreadnought I have mulled over 850 points lists. LOL.

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Simply, I prefer 1000 point games because they are more fun. Reasoning:

 

Normally, at 800, I see reiterations of the same list. Battleship, frigates, two tier 2 squadrons. Sometimes things get changed, but more often than not at 800 I see a Patrol Fleet box with an extra squadron. At 1000, I see more variance across tables. Carriers start to make an appearance, more than one tier 3 hits the table and so far there is no class of model that is excluded from battle fleet play. In my group I'm as likely to see a 2-1-2 list as a 1-2-3 or 1-3-2.

 

Also, I don't like 800 point fleets because I can't being a pair of battlecruisers.

 

Those are just my experiences in my group.

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I voted for 900.  

 

First, I voted for it because when I introduced myself to the game it was considered the "standard" based on the chatter I could find on the Internet.  That was the Adepticon choice.  If the most you hear and see has to do with building and playing at a said level - a player will gravitate to that.  Example:  How many Warmachine/Hordes players regularly bring 41 pt armies?  How many 40k players regularly play at 873 points?  

 

There's something to be said for standard gaming parameters to help ease a player from location to location and from event to event.  I've followed in recognition of their apparently accepted leadership position on this particular topic.  Silence is agreement, dissenters have not spoken.  Someone had to lead the charge and my fellow Michiganders seemed to be doing a good job, so I followed.

 

This was also one of my selling points as I have been growing the community out here.  I wanted the player base to be playing at the "Adepticon Level" so if they went to an event they would feel comfortable with their fleet.  (I am including myself in this.)

 

Second, 900 points is enough to get most fleet options in without a problem.  I will agree on the other hand, that some ship classes don't fit "as comfortably" as they would given 1,000 points.  And there is the point that some factions actually do "seem" to perform better at varying point levels.  I can't and won't say they do, since I haven't tried every faction.  

 

I haven't pushed for 1,000 points as the norm here yet as we're still growing.  We're still stabilizing and just got our first retail location to regularly stock the game.  We are not a very large following and I wasn't rushing to flood new players with the idea of needing to get to larger fleets.  I am NOT going to rush my new players as I hold demo events in this area either.  There is that mental ding when you say the number 1,000 (which is why many prices are put at like $99.99..it's not $100.00) - and even though a patrol fleet box is 1/2 of that and our "normal games" are 900 (with a good sprinkling of 800 and yes I know a box is STILL 1/2 of 1,000 pt fleet) there's still something about saying that number or a larger one that gives a slight pause.  

 

I will push to migrate this community to whatever point level and table size is decided upon here as ‘typical game.’  That being said though, I rather like being able to choose a dread if I want one, so if I HAD to choose something other than 900, it would be 1,000.

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Thanks for the tip of the hat, Razer!

Anyway, 900 points has proved to be a sort of red-headed stepchild of a points level, and I never understood why. We originially settled on 900 points for competitive play because it checked all the boxes we wanted for a grand tournament:

-Optimized game length (in minutes)

-Full access to all squadrons

-Ability to play any faction

However, the community seemed to only grudgingly accept it. So this year, we leave it to the community to decide. We had a sold out event in only a few hours last year and we anticipate some growth for this coming year. It is very likely that we will reach the new cap of 32 players, so we feel it important to get the community's input on what size event they want to play in.

Thank you to all who have made their voices heard, and I encourage those who have not yet done so to speak up. We will continue to take feedback for some time before the final decision is made and the primer packets are generated.

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There is one clear downside to the 900 point MFV:

-Lack of variety in fleet lists

Most of this I'm getting from jadedgamercast, where it sounded like everyone went Tier 1 heavy, taking the bare minimum Tier 2&3. What sticks most in my mind most is Nathan saying at their 900 point Tournament in Canada, four Terran players basically brought the exact same list.

How many players actually bring and use two very different lists at your events? I know the Adepticon Champ didn't; he just took Bomber or Interceptors, depending on the Torpedo threat. I didn't at the Michigan GT, because I didn't have everything painted (my Assault Carrier is still in pieces). Two out three of my opponents only had one list.

The easiest way to facilitate fleet variety is to include Escalating Engagement, and ensure everyone knows it ahead of time. At the very least, include the following rules in two of the games at the Tournament:

- No Shunt Entry

- Tier 1 in Reserve

Escalating Engagement uses both, so it generally punishes top-heavy lists. It's no surprise to me that my one solid victory was this scenario, as it hurt my opponent's fleet build much more than mine... Even with all of our Reserves arriving Turn 2.

If I were to mix things up a bit, I'd make any scenario with multiple objectives forbid Shunt Entry, but allow Shunt Entry in Escalating Engagement.

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I had a null vote to see the results (I won't be attending so wouldn't want to create unnecessary variation).

Had I voted it would be for 1000 points. In our Meta 800 points has horrible variety and 900 points is always top heavy.

At 800 points there isn't enough variety. Carriers get pounded by battleships, battlecruisers get pounded by everything, and battlecarriers get played like battleships.

At 900 points people have the option to take the big stuff but not enough points to balance the rest of their fleet. So inevitably you see 2 battleship builds or dreadnaught/battlecarrier builds with minimum in everything else.

That extra 100 points is the sweet spot.

As far as time there is very little difference between the three levels. Where you start to see larger variety in time is when you play 600 or 1200 points.

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Have you ever tried a 600 point game, but forbid battleships?

I would think everyone would take a battleship at 600 points, creating even less diversity than 800 point lists. I would appreciate an explanation for why your local area is different

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I know that the perception is that 900 points causes top heavy lists, but the #1 and #2 rankings at the end of the day went to two players who only had a single (non-Dreadnaught) Tier 1, and the player (granted he was also very new) that ran double Battleship and single Dread was on the bottom. Take that for what it is worth.

Also, I wouldn't cite evidence for lack of variety based on the composition of an individual player's list choices. I know that the tourney winner had been practicing heavily with the one list and had mastered it. He just had a bomber/interceptor switchout because that was all he needed. Having two fairly different lists to play with means you had less games in with either of them compared to just drilling with one list.

And as far as the JadedGamercast... Well, they are indeed a very vocal crew. I find their point of view worth considering, but not moreso than any other source.

Regardless, it looks like 1000pts is still winning out on here. Wonder what the FB poll looks like...

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