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Sebenko

Unit Ratings- Preliminary 28th September update ratings

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Right with the new stats, I think it's worth revisiting my ratings for some models. I'll only be listing models that have had stat changes, as I can't tell how much 'same as it was' will affect our stuff.

 

Naval

 

Prometheus- 3/5 Still a DN. Minor points value change is a bit subtle to predict how much of an effect it will be. I don't think it will change how frequently it appears in my lists.

Diophantus- 3.5/5 Big changes afoot. Very tough assault carrier, with Wavelurking and DN stats. How the drones perform with all their nerfs will be key to how good the Diophantus is. Could be a 3 or 4 star unit, drones depending.

Aristotle- 4/5 Definitely worth taking now. Much cheaper for the standard gunnery version, E-turret version is going to be a solid fire support platform. Option to attach a Kepler sweetens the deal moreso for the E-turret version. +1" move will help the standard version be useful. Still ludicrously vulnerable to boarding.

Pericles- 3.5/5 Cheaper again, and one of two ways of getting Drone Launcher (9+) without paying 300+ points. Again depends on the drone performance, but I'm feeling that it'll swing towards 3/5.

Hipassus- 3.5/5 Back to old price, pays more for E-turrets. Never took it for the guns anyway. Still synertastic

Fresnel- 4/5 Covenant engineer has found that power dial that got knocked by an Iron man intern. Still a great fire support platform.

Zeno- 3.5/5 Still feels like it needs a CR buff. +1" move is nice though.

Kepler- 4/5 Still damn good, assuming drones work. Aristotle team-up option is awesome, though.

Plato- 4/5 The new option to team a pair with a Fresnel is pretty nice. I think it's more of a flexible Fresnel squadron than more rigid Platos.

Plutarch- 4/5 New stats, old price. Very tasty. Full squadron goes from 150 to 135 points.

Galen- 3/5 20% cost reduction, and can escort a Zeno. Not bad, especially with the proliferation of expensive big stuff we have now.

 

Aerial

 

Euclid- 1/5 Firepower was only okay for a supposed DN before. Now it's pretty rubbish without options, and the Drones it fires will be much worse. All the options are expensive, and it can't multi-role them at all. Why?

Epicurus- 3/5 No special abilities, drones aren't nearly as good, more expensive now. Poor Epicurus is slipping.

Daedalus-Beta- 2.5/5 Almost usable now, but it still feels lacking.

Hyperbius- 3/5 Not as good at helping drones, which are now not good at all. Not a bad unit, still.

Icarus- 3/5 Still languishing in the "nothing special" category. On the plus side, AP count is no longer hilariously atrocious.

Capek- 2.5/5 Reduced to not being that useful now, and more expensive. Worst thing is, they've been added to a specialist squadron with the Epicurus, at the same time as taking away all their ability to seriously assist the venerable old Sky Fortress.

Ptolemy- 4.5/5 Fair enough. I've won multiple games with just a pair of these at 60 points. Also a fun little specialist squadron option which looks to be ever so slightly better than 2.5 Ptolemys.

Pytheus- 3/5 Still not sure about these. I suspect they may do a pretty good job of sub hunting, with both bombs and CC.

 

Armoured

 

Herodotus- 2.5/5 How exactly am I meant to hit anything with the PA now? Also fires new, suckier drones.

Archimedes- 6/5 SCUTTLE (effectively). LASERS. Might as well have called it the Sebenko Special.

Callimachus A&B- 3.5/5 360 makes for nice logistics.

Skorpios- 3/5 Not sure about the new cost, they don't really hit that hard for the points.

 

Assorted 360 move mediums- As this is a change introduced for virtually all medium models in the land game, I think re-rating them based on this might be a bit foolish. Time will tell how it all unfolds.

 

A note on Battle Group sets- A lot of these are really awkward to field, and really not worth it just for the card. E.g. The Armoured Walker Battle Group- Infantry are really difficult to get on the field already.

 

Specialist Group Squadrons

Long awaited, here's my musings on them:

 

Theta Squadron- Honestly, I'm excited to try this one. A Fresnel squadron that trades some CR & Shields for HP, Broadsides and some boarding resilience, for 10 points extra. I think it could be worth it.

 

Sigma Squadron- Escort a lone Zeno? Interesting concept, especially in smaller games, where a lone Zeno can make a big difference.

 

Omega Squadron- Essentially a very expensive way to escort those vulnerable Kepler carriers. Probably going to see more use than normal Cleomedes squadrons in my lists, but very expensive (350 Points!).

 

Kappa Bombardment Squadron- Seems to be one every nation gets, though the Janus seems a little unnecessary, especially with the cost of needing a second one and Forgot that's not how they work now more infantry to be useful.

 

Epsilon Squadron- Another interesting one. Since I rarely take medium tanks in full squadrons, I might use this one if I have leftover points.

 

Omicron Aerial Squadron- Almost useless, since the Capek's lasers were neutered just as the squadron option became available. If you're close enough to use those lasers, the Epicurus is too close.

 

Rho Aerial Squadron- Pretty much a 2.5 Ptolemy squadron. Hilariously mobile, though, so I think this could be a good one.

 

I think a common issue with all the Specialist Group squadrons and Battle Groups that include Janus Walkers is the difficulty of getting infantry on the board to put them to good use, because it requires fortifications. Maybe if the Janus Walkers came with infantry.

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I think a fair few of your ratings are on the money.

Euclid was teetering on the brink before, this new price has just pushed too far. I will still field it once, just to make sure, but I hold no hope for it.

 

But others I do disagree with.

Aristotle is a bit better, but a 400 point prize defended only slightly better than the Cherbourg battle cruiser (against boarding) it is still unfeasible. AP 6 on a battleship is ludicrous. Its e-turret version, with its ability to stay at RB 4 (maybe with the Kepler to boost it further) might do some good work, but I still think a Fresnel squadron would be better at this role.

 

Theta Squadron... I think this one is personal preference, but I have never found Fresnels to be very squishy so the idea one of them up into 2 platos does not strike me as useful. But again, I will try it to see.

 

I would have rated Zenos as a 4 before, and now they are just that little bit faster. Yay! I have never taken a squad of these and regretted it. Very expensive though.

 

Throughout version 2.0 we have had an exemplary medium selection. No choice has been truly bad, all have had a purpose and done well at it. This is still true and I suspect I will be relying on our medium section even more now that our drone network has suffered a heart attack and our resilient larger vessels have all taken dread-pills.

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I'm primarily basing the rating on the Aristotle on the combination of E-turrets and the Kepler attachment making it a very shooty laser platform (18AD at RB4 and Drone Launcher(5) is pretty tasty). I've not actually had much trouble avoiding boarding with the old E-turret Aristotle (main turret version was a different story, which usually ended up boarded and surrounded by enemy ships it totally failed to hurt in the slightest). Remains to be seen whether we'll be able to spare drones for a CAP.

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Cheers Seb. I'm not going to comment as not played with the new orbat and it would be pure theory craft. However, I'm struggling not including dreads which makes me slightly uncomfortable as I normally don't use them. I noticed you haven't rated the super worm. Are you waiting to play test it or is it more you don't agree with it? Either way is fine, just wondering. It'll be an interesting day that first battle against any super dread to see how they perform

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One of the things to note is that certain infantry types can be purchased as standalone squadrons, without needing to come from a Fortification

 

Wait, which ones? I was under the impression that infantry only came with fortifications/APCs.

EDIT: Yes, p123 Admiral edition, "Infantry of any Type may NOT be bought directly." Did this change in one of the downloadable versions?

 

 

Cheers Seb. I'm not going to comment as not played with the new orbat and it would be pure theory craft. However, I'm struggling not including dreads which makes me slightly uncomfortable as I normally don't use them. I noticed you haven't rated the super worm. Are you waiting to play test it or is it more you don't agree with it? Either way is fine, just wondering. It'll be an interesting day that first battle against any super dread to see how they perform

 

Haven't played the new ORBAT either. Which is why it's labeled "preliminary" instead of the (implicit) "perfect truth as told by Sebenko, he who is always correct". As for the Worm, little from column A, little from column B. All I can do is slap "BLOODY RIDICULOUS" on it and hope it leaves me alone. Incidentally, I think that's how other DW players around here view me.

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One of the things to note is that certain infantry types can be purchased as standalone squadrons, without needing to come from a Fortification

 

The only one we can seem to do this with so far are the recon infantry for the artillery specialist groups.

 

And don't you dare say they're coming in the future.

 

 

I think a common issue with all the Specialist Group squadrons and Battle Groups that include Janus Walkers is the difficulty of getting infantry on the board to put them to good use, because it requires fortifications. Maybe if the Janus Walkers came with infantry.

 

I agreed with this at first, but remember that Energy Portals are effectively a form of mobile cover - firing through them causing partial obscuring. Plus, you don't have to worry about the enemy using them, since Janus portals are restricted to tiny ground units (i.e. infantry) only. An...interesting...payoff IMO.

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It's in their entries. Some of the national lists have Squadron sizes now. Mainly only Recon and Line, so that you can use the specialist squadrons and certain Battlegroups

 

Probably worth putting in the FAQ/rulebook update, since the current rulebook is pretty explicit about not buying infantry.

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