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Orbat Update

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Russian Orbat Update
 
Moskva
+15 pts
Glacial Gen -10 pts
 
Khatanga
+10 pts
Target Jammer +5 pts
 
Borodino
+15 pts
 
Dudinka
+10 pts
 
Kostroma
+10 pts
 
Azov
+10 pts
 
Tambov
+5 pts
 
Pesets
-5 pts
Gained Ablative Armour (+1)
 
Tiksi
+10 pts
Target Jammer +5pts
-2 AP
 
Rudinksy
Now an Attachment for RC Naval Mediums and Larges
+1 AP
 
Rostov
+1 AD at RB 3 and 4
 
Nikel
+1 AA
 
Veliky
-5 pts
 
Novgorod
+5 pts
-1 AP
 
Tunguska
+5 pts
Target Jammer +5 pts
 
Krichev
+ 5pts
 
Saransk
+1 AD to Surface Mines
 
Alexander
Uses Large template instead of 45 degree
 
Kursk
Uses Large Template instead of 45 degree
 
Belgorod
Uses Large Template instead of 45 degree
 
Vorkuta
Uses Large Template instead of 45 degree
 
Orlov
360 movement now
 
Volochok
360 movement now
 
Minsk
360 movement now
 
Kamchatka
360 movement now
 
Tyumen
360 movement now
 
Poltava
360 movement now
 

Flak Tower

+5 pts

+1 AA

 

Dive Bomber

+1 DR

 

Torpedo Bomber

+4" to movement

 

Recon Plane

+1 DR

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Doesn't look too bad.  We gained a good deal of agility thanks to the 360 movement change.  And as far as the point increase, class to class our ships are bruisers to everyone else already so we did need some balancing without a nerf bat to the face and it is only a 5 to 15 points addition.

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With the exeption of the Katanga en the Tiksi I really dont understand the modifications ....

And 4AP, 2 AA on a 95pts Tiksi ??... I think the Design Team forgot to had SV 25  :P 

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You only ever seen Russian players use tiskis thou, even with those nerfs it'll probably still be the premier RC medium.

 

Funny enough I don't own a single Tiksi or used one in a game. I have tons of cruisers and gunships, but no Tiksis

 

Sorry about the double post, if you want a tech guy, find a COA player

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You should try them out then :o the big mortars are great for blasting away smalls and mediums, and the broadsides linking with the small mortars is a hefty amount of dice :) and the key word for the mortars, redoubtable :D

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I usually take a Khatanga or two as my larges so I am know all too well the raw carnage heavy mortars can do on smalls and mediums :)

 

I know the trend is Khatangas and Tiksis at range smashing everything, but there is something about directing a squadron of gunships into the enemies face and asking them to smile and wait for the flash, lol.

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I play Russian Coalition and I must say that Tiksis and Khatanga were ower powered. It´s good thing that they have been nerfed. Also I´m glad for the new specialised squadrons especially the one with Azov.

 

Also the SAS rules have changed and it´s not mentioned yet.

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Just noticed that the Rudnitsky also gained 1 AP.

 

Im a bit sad that the Novgorod lost 1 AP and is 5 points more expensive. I already did not use them that much: in RB2 they have 2x 10 AD and in RB1 they got 18 AD that only hits on 5+ because of primary gunnery and a 8 AD attack. It is just underwhelming compared to the Nikel which has 1 extra DR, a 12/15 AD attack in RB1/2 and now for the same price as the Novgorod and with 1 extra AP. What do you think?

 

I'm happy with the Pesets though, with the release of the Chany I did not see the point of taking a Peset but with these buffs it is a real choice between a little bit more durability and utility versus damage. 

 

The Tiksi's needed a nerf and I think it is a good one. They used to be very good ranged platforms and good with boarding. Now they are a very juicy boarding target which is a nice trade. You really want to keep them at range. 

 

I did not see that Torpedo Bomber speed yet, that is fast :o. And Dive Bomber/Recon plane got DR3!! Also Aces are only 5 points now.

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I adjusted the list, thanks again NaH2P.

 

I agree with you, after I let it sink in for a while it did sadden me about the Novogorod.  I have 16 of them in my fleet, and that 5 point difference is what made me lean towards them versus the Nikel, but now with a 5 point increase, one less AP, and still dealing with the RB 1 problem of their main gun being a primary.....  Guess too many people were using them for cheap armed assault boats instead of the Kazimov.  Personally I would be willing to give up some AD on the Novgorods main turret for it to be made a Secondary and that would make me come back to them with the current changes.

 

I still think the Chany's are better at the moment even with the Peset changes. Still so much damage they can lay down since they have Pack Tactics Fore Cannons +2 and Surface Hunter +1.  Yes the peset has spotter: expert, but as I don't run the mortar fleet that doesn't matter to me very much, and unless it has changed it was decided a while back the Peset can't use its generator while submerged.

 

I didn't notice the change to the planes either.  I love my Kostroma with dive bombers that much more now.

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   Rant and internal monologue ahead. Slight hyperbole is to be expected.

 

Tough nerfs. I didn't expect us to get any buffs exactly but come on!

I know, almost everybody got some nerfs. But most other people didn't get 'this much' nerf IMO.

After all, when you look at the big picture, we are talking about an average 10% points increase to costs across the fleet!

I would really like some kind of comment as to why these were deserved.

 

   Nerf-whine aside, these are my thoughts on those units for which I had any reactions.

I just recently convinced myself that I ought to give Moskva a shot. +15p might have forced me to reconsider, but with Borodino) also going up 15, and all other larges went up 10, Moskva is actually looking better than before. Also, 10p cheaper iceburgs? Moskva is massive and can't hide. And 8" is to short of a range to actually be useful for glaciers i tend to find.

Borodino was always in the shadow of Khatanga for me. When B got +15 and K get +10 it is not helping the ratio that was already in favor of K.

Khatanga is up +10. Already being the most cost efficient Large IMO, getting the lowest among point increases for Larges only entrenched that position I feel. The increase itself was deserved however.

Dudinka I find hard to take seriously. I rarely wanted to use it when it costed 160. I found it decent back when it was 150. I am not impressed now that it is 170.

  (This does however balance out against the improvements to the SAS! Phrased like this: Would I pay +10p to get +1 DR on all dive bombers? Yes please!)

Like Moskva, I deliberated getting a Kostroma. Primaily because it was a cheap large. Nevermind that, this just reinforces my desire to get forward landing fields instead. (Which incidentally is much more fluffy)

Ah, Azov. It took some time before I took you seriously compared to the simply better-in-every-way Borodinosaurus. That ratio improved, but now it looks like you might second fiddle to Tambov instead.

Tiksi had it comming as well. Though I'm not sure if +10 was the right thing to do. Anyhow, it is less appealing now, giving way for other mediums.

I do think Tambov were really good, if you managed to keep them safe for two turns. Tambov might not be so overshadowed by the redoubtable Tiksi anymore, but it is now 20p more expensive than Suvorov and is a high priority target. The net effect is probably that they will be seen more often.

Pesets. Is that you? I don't recognize you under that extra plating. Finally, it feels like a russian medium! Almost as durable as Suvorov, but diving, with +1 to hit, and cheaper. Guess what I'm getting next.

Rudnitsky. I want to get these guys. Not because I think that they are actually any good for me, but because they are unique, and because they ware sure to annoy some people I know.

Suvorov being unchanged feels absolutely right. I almost never take them because I might as well take the so much more devastating and durable Tiksi for +15p. Now the choice is more real, Suvorov for 70, or Tambov for +20, or Tiksi for +25.

Never been a fan of Rostov. Still not, mostly because of the 40p pricetag. I want my smalls to be cheap and numerous. But when our frigate went up to 30, one starts to reconsider. Rostov is now also a better shot at long ranges, which certainly helps its case and differentiates it from our other smalls. It also has competition from the Chany for the short range punches now so.

Nikel. I haven't used it in 2.0 since I found Novgorods to be better "in every way that matters" (@NaH2PO4aq. Wierd right?) AND cheaper. Now they are the same cost, which might make me try Nikels occasionally, but I will probably still rather take Novs as my smalls.

Veliky down to 25, and good riddance. These had no business costing 30 when the better-in-every-way-that-counts novgorod was still 25. Only now that Nov is 30 do they (spartan) seem to realize this. I might actually consider using them now.

Novgorod. I know, Novs were crazy good smalls for 25p. I don't feel that -1 AP AND +5p was the way to solve it though. Still. Aside from Crazymovs, Novs are probably still my go-to small. Though one of the squadron might be replaced with Veliky from now on.

Tunguska +5p I can deal with. It did seem fairly cheap before. Can't wait to mix it up with Saransk however for some nasty hard hitting links.

Dive bomber is back at being hunter surface, the way it is supposed to be. I almost surrendered to using torpedo bombers (still convinced that RC should not have torpedoes in the first place). And +1 DR. What's this? Thank you spartan!

+4 move on Torpedo bombers? Interesting. Guess it is not a no-brainer choice for what bombers to take after all.

 

Silver lining:

So aside from Khatanga being even more of an auto include (due to the power of math and ratios), I feel that the new costs have improved the internal balance between choices significantly. Which is definitely a good thing.

Pesets could survive a round of shooting now also, making it viable in my book.

Our SAS are also awesome now.

My two greatest, and frequent nightmares (Cherbourgh-spam and drone-spam) were also hit hard with the nerf-bat.

 

Still not convinced that the Russians were fielding an excess of roughly 10% units though.

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Given the better range and flexability, the Khatanga to me beats out the Moskva.  Only moves 6 inches? It has mortars out the wazoo that can do area bombardment to wipe out small and meds then can ram and blast larges if need be.  Moskva can only move 5 inches.....yeah.....might get close enough to hit something by turn 3 or 4 unless people just stay away from it or better yet it is a terrain heavy field and all the manuevering/turning slows it down even more :(

 

The Kostroma is still good.  Bear in mind with the landing fields you still have to be within 4 inches to use your carrier points on your SASs, plus the Kostroma can still give other ships black eyes with her broadsides.

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The FSA are raving about the Buffs with their new Orbats.  They didn't need them but seems to be mostly good news on their end.  CoA drone spam needed the obvious nerf.  As much as we need new players, I've developed an aversion for Beardy/Cheesy/Spammy lists from another game system that shall not be named. Power Gamers will be power gamers & Modellers will be modellers.  Show up with the most min-maxed Imbalanced, exploited, broken list with Unpainted bare Resin models and I'll still be fielding my well painted RC Fleet, Win or Lose.

 

 RC was overpowered?  Still the slowest fleet & prone to getting crippled before we get to grips.  Not such an obvious need of the nerf bat.  Thought our vessels were already on the pricey side.  Very well, we'll take our Nerf bat beatings & like it.  Time & Battle Reports will tell how these changes play out.

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You have to bear in mind balance within the faction, as well as between it and others. As pointed out above, many of the tweaks  are there to make all units in the orbat useful.

 

Don't forget that many other nations also had points increases!

 

james

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Well normaly I would say that some factions are overpowered but Free Australia is a really terrible match up for Russians. My opponent usually field two Bounties two squadrons of submarine deloying ships some frigates and squadron of victorias and easily tear me appart..

 

What should I use against him..

exept for switching for other faction (COA, CF, LoIS might perform well against him)

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