Zig-zagging lumbering models gain free movement

[Matti]

Not so much a rules question as an observation, but this seems like the right forum anyway.

 

When moving a lumbering model in a zig-zag fashion (for instance: 1" ahead, turn left, 1" ahead, turn right, repeat), the end result is you will have traveled further across the table than the sum of the movements you made. The increase is especially pronounced on bases which are horizontal rectangles. The reason is the fact that the model doesn't turn around its center point, but rather pivots around a corner.

 

Here's something I prepared earlier:

 

The example is for a heavy moving flat out. This means my Relthoza heavy walker which has a flat out move of 13" can actually move 16" and little bit (in a very specific direction, of course).

 

Useful? Annoying? Bug? Discuss

[Kraggi]

Part of Lumbering I think, a little bit annoying I guess if you get caught out by it, but for the most part I think its just something we have to live with at the moment. 

[Mountbatten]

you Planetfall whippersnappers aint seen nothing until you have seen a Dystopian Wars Antarctican Mobile airfield pull the same trick, but with a base 6 inches wide! When that this started 'snaking' its Mv doubled!

[slimeball]

One thing i always wondered, is the first inch after rotate considered the first inch of the next 3 inch compulsory movement. In your example for instance you have turned 45 degrees, then moved 1+3. Is the 1 part of the turn or is it considered straight forward?

[knightperson]

I was just measuring this out the other day with the Relthoza heavy walkers, which have the horizontal bases. Their movement is 7 / 13, but with careful snaking, they can "walk" about 15 inches. So they can literally walk faster than they can run!

[Matti]

The rotation is worth 1 inch, you then need to go 3 inch ahead before being able to rotate again, so as I drew is the quickest way to make 2 turns.

I get 12 inch btw, for the maximum 7inch snake with a heavy spider. 15 seems too high, did you take the obligatory 1 inch straight between each turn into account?

[knightperson]

The rotation is worth 1 inch, you then need to go 3 inch ahead before being able to rotate again, so as I drew is the quickest way to make 2 turns.

I get 12 inch btw, for the maximum 7inch snake with a heavy spider. 15 seems too high, did you take the obligatory 1 inch straight between each turn into account?

 

Ummmmm, oops? Somehow, I missed that in the rules. So a Lumbering model moving at Cruising Speed turns like an Armada cruiser not a frigate. And at Flat Out speed they turn like that Dindrenzi battleship without buying the turn limit down to what the other large vessels use. Got it! I'll have to remeasure it and see what I get when doing it right. 

[Cannor]

"Snaking" is a thing in Firestorm Armada, too. I think only Halo lacks snaking because there aren't any templates.

[Spellduckwrong]

Isn't there some kind of penalty in DW for doing so as well?

[jupjupy]

Its a treacherous terrain test if you snake, I think? You dont actually get extra movement anyway because the turn itself costs an inch of movement. At least thats what it seemed from the beginning of the 45 degree template (and what it should be!).

[Marine0351W]

There is, but it is only if you try to immediately turn right after making your compulsory move, so you would make a 1" move after compulsory and be fine, or even .5" >.<

Also Jupjupy this is unique to models that have the longest edge of the base forwards, because geometry XD

[Magarch]

Don't really think it's a bug (funny since it's usually for Relthoza ), because you need the place to play that move.

 

And having a small blocking element for just a thing on your right is enough to keep you from turning.

 

So yeah, you can do that in the open. Not so much on a terrain filled battlefield.

[slimeball]

Lumbering becomes a real headache when you throw terrain in to the mix, so this advantage in open terrain isnt really an issue most of the time. And wide edge forward gives you a huge turning arc so it is really easy to get stuck on the corner of terrain and have to shuffle about to try and move.

[Matti]

Agreed about a full terrain table, but when using Spartan's terrain placement rules coverage like that is quite unlikely (not that we do, we tend to fill it a bit more   ). And considering you get only 2-4 moves from your typical unit, having even 1 of those be 30-50% longer is nice

[Magarch]

Actually, you don't need a lot of terrains...friendly models block you even more easily. Just a model close to your Heavy's base is enough to stop it from turning.

 

Would be interesting to see if it is actually of so much use in practical. Gaining extra move may be interesting, but it's useless if it puts you in a bad position or just block you/the rest of your army.

 

Remember than in Flat Out moves, you must move 3'' forward before turning. Thus, your template is false if you start your move as it is drawn in such a situation. And you actually can't do the same for each 5'' you move.

[Matti]

As far as I know, you can turn immediately with a lumbering model moving flat out:
 

Models with the Lumbering MAR moving Flat Out need not move in a straight line, but do not get to perform a Pivot. Instead these models move 3" directly forwards in a straight line between each use of the 45-degree Template.
 
Digital Rulebook, page 69

 

Nothing there about having to move straight before making the first turn.
 
You are of course right about the extra 3" between each 5" template. Luckily the Relthoza heavy has exactly 13", enough for two templates and a 3" connector in the middle.

[Magarch]

I don't know anymore, it seems like the rules played and the rules written will be different anyway. Should have tried my luck for the beta test since it seems you have answers on how to actually play as intended only here.

 

Guess you may be right on that one, sure.

[Matti]

I'm not in the beta, if that's what you mean?

 

I'm not sure this is the official ruling btw, just how I interpret the rules as written.

[Magarch]

Oh sorry, it wasn't against you. It's just I'm getting a bit confused these days. It makes me doubt how to play, now.

 

But yes, your interpretation looks right to me. It doesn't please me that much, 'cause I think it's weird, but well...yeah, as it is written, that should be it.

Trouble is that many things seem to be played not as the rules are written, so I don't know anymore.

[Crusader]

How can you turn in a flat out move? It says that you have to move in a straight line without any turning, apart from the one at the beginning.

[Spellduckwrong]

How can you turn in a flat out move? It says that you have to move in a straight line without any turning, apart from the one at the beginning.

Lumbering models perform Flat Out differently.

Pg.69 of the online rulebook:

"Models with the Lumbering MAR moving Flat Out need not move in a straight line, but do not get to perform a Pivot. Instead these models move 3" directly forwards in a straight line between each use of the 45-degree Template."

[Crusader]

Woooow how could have I miss it?   This put thing into new perspectives. Not that 2" would help my Vidars that much, but it's a little extra non the less.

[c0rruptd]

I gotta say, this feels a little rules-abuse-y... It doesn't make sense to me at all from a 'realism' or gameplay perspective.

[Spellduckwrong]

I gotta say, this feels a little rules-abuse-y... It doesn't make sense to me at all from a 'realism' or gameplay perspective.

It is rules-abusey, but there it is.

[Matti]

Yup, rules abusey, but also something which comes up in regular play: in fact the reason I started to figure this out was that the situation in the schematic I posted happened exactly like that in my game and I suddenly found myself in effective range when I wasn't expecting to be.