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billygeizig

targeting flyers in rb1

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Section C4-FIRING : 1. Declaring Attacks (page 58)

A Model on the Surface Height Level CANNOT Target a Model occupying the Aerial Height Band with a Gunnery Ordanance Attack In Range Band 1.

 

Does this mean that every other weapon like Rockets, Tesslas, FlameThrower, Mortars, Bombards, Energy Weaponry and Heat Weaponry can fire at flyers in RB1. (since they aren't gunnery)

 

Is this intendet to be this way? If so, why do some weapons like Speerschleuder and Volley Guns have the High Angle mar?

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Been trying to figure this out myself. Gunnery Ordenance is not specifically defined anywhere but from what I can see reading previous posts and the rules is that it appears that all primary and secondary weapons, which are described as primary gunnery and secondary gunnery in the rules are gunnery weapons and regular tertiary (rockets, torpedos, bombs) and auxillary weapons (AA and CC) are not considered gunnery.

What I have not seen confirmed and can't find any specific reference to in the rules is whether other weapons that are sometimes tertiary weapons and other times are secondary, such as flamethrowers and tesla coils, are considered gunnery or not and therefore whether these can target flyers in RB1.

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Been trying to figure this out myself. Gunnery Ordenance is not specifically defined anywhere ...

 

I have found this too. Gunnary Ordnance is listed in the RB, but I don't believe is actually states what weapons are Gunnary Ordnance. For example, the Main Turret of a Battleship just say "Main Turret" it doesn't actually say "gunnary."

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I feel that is the reason for the High Angle MAR, I think everything but Auxiliary (Ack-ack and CC) Weapons, and Bombs and Mines are supposed to be considered Gunnery Ordinance.

 

Perfect Example is Tesla/Speerschlueder.

Tesla is a Specialized Weapon, but a Speerschleuder is a Specialized Tesla Weapon that (among other things) has the High Angle MAR. Seems pointless to give it that unless they are both considered Gunnery...

 

really needs a FAQ answer from Spartan...

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Perfect Example is Tesla/Speerschlueder.

Tesla is a Specialized Weapon, but a Speerschleuder is a Specialized Tesla Weapon that (among other things) has the High Angle MAR. Seems pointless to give it that unless they are both considered Gunnery...

really needs a FAQ answer from Spartan...

Except that speerschleuder's are secondaries so technically gunnery so would need the high angle to fire in RB1 where as fore tesla coils are tertiary and therefore dont need the high angle....which could mean fore tesla coils and speershleuders can fire in RB1 and the remaining teslas that are secondary and not high angle can't.

The rule book does specify primary and secondary as gunnery and tertiary as not so I do concure that Spartan needs to confirm the intent here for specialised tertiary weapons (including rockets unless this has already been confirmed) as there seems to be a lot of difference in opinion over this.

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I feel that is the reason for the High Angle MAR, I think everything but Auxiliary (Ack-ack and CC) Weapons, and Bombs and Mines are supposed to be considered Gunnery Ordinance.

 

Perfect Example is Tesla/Speerschlueder.

Tesla is a Specialized Weapon, but a Speerschleuder is a Specialized Tesla Weapon that (among other things) has the High Angle MAR. Seems pointless to give it that unless they are both considered Gunnery...

 

really needs a FAQ answer from Spartan...

There are more types of Ordnance: Gunnery, Rocket, Torpedo and Bomb Ordnance. I understand it so that everything (bar AA/CC and Mines) that is not of one of the other types or something special (such as the Particle Accelerator) is Gunnery Ordnance.

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As defined by the book:

* All Primary (P) and Secondary (S) weapons are considered Gunnery.
* Tertiary weapons (T) are not Gunnery.
* Gunnery weapons cannot target Flying models in RB1, unless they have High Angle MAR (Volley Guns, Speerschleuders, etc).


Tricky exceptions currently found:

* Non-speerschleuder Tesla weapons that are Tertiary (T) can fire at flyers in RB1 (on the Blucher,  Elbe, etc).
* Flamethrowers that are Tertiary (T) can fire at flyers in RB1 (possible unintended loophole).

 

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As defined by the book:

* All Primary (P) and Secondary (S) weapons are considered Gunnery.

* Tertiary weapons (T) are not Gunnery.

* Gunnery weapons cannot target Flying models in RB1, unless they have High Angle MAR (Volley Guns, Speerschleuders, etc).

Tricky exceptions currently found:

* Non-speerschleuder Tesla weapons that are Tertiary (T) can fire at flyers in RB1 (on the Blucher, Elbe, etc).

* Flamethrowers that are Tertiary (T) can fire at flyers in RB1 (possible unintended loophole).

How does this explain page 14 under Weapon Name:

In the case of Gunnery Weapons the name will be followed by a (P),(S) or (T) denoting a Primary, Secondary or Tertiary weapons respectively.

Its the only definition of Gunnery I can find.

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How does this explain page 14 under Weapon Name:

In the case of Gunnery Weapons the name will be followed by a (P),(S) or (T) denoting a Primary, Secondary or Tertiary weapons respectively.

Its the only definition of Gunnery I can find.

Looks good to me. While I think that passage is meant to be a general descriptor of all weaponry (if you read the full context on pg 14), applying this definition to make Tertiary Gunnery would solve the loopholes of Flamethrowers and Tesla Coils shooting straight up. I believe those are the only two types of Tertiary Gunnery out there.

 

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Look, if you put the page 14 reference together with the Profile Attack Dice section bullwt point 1 on page 60 bottom of page:

"Gunnery, Rocket and Torpedo Ordnance have specific attack dice (AD) value listed in the Model's Profle in each range band that they can fire into."

then to me Gunnery has AD and uses Range Bands regardless of being P, S or T. Bombs and Mines are not Gunnery and, as it notes in bullet 3, these are put there for convenience to keep things together.

There might be a case for Rockets not being Gunnery based on this section but rockets are pretty useless or not available in RB1 generally anyway.

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Looks good to me. While I think that passage is meant to be a general descriptor of all weaponry (if you read the full context on pg 14), applying this definition to make Tertiary Gunnery would solve the loopholes of Flamethrowers and Tesla Coils shooting straight up. I believe those are the only two types of Tertiary Gunnery out there.

Easy fix would be to ammend the faction sheets to give those tertiary teslas, flamethrowers, rockets etc that might be able to fire at flyers the high angle MAR. Seems to be what it's purpose is. Flame throwers firing up has always seemed silly to me.

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Look, if you put the page 14 reference together with the Profile Attack Dice section bullwt point 1 on page 60 bottom of page:

"Gunnery, Rocket and Torpedo Ordnance have specific attack dice (AD) value listed in the Model's Profle in each range band that they can fire into."

then to me Gunnery has AD and uses Range Bands regardless of being P, S or T. Bombs and Mines are not Gunnery and, as it notes in bullet 3, these are put there for convenience to keep things together.

There might be a case for Rockets not being Gunnery based on this section but rockets are pretty useless or not available in RB1 generally anyway.

I'm unclear on the point you are trying to make with this post. Most rockets are available in RB1 and are clearly not gunnery.

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Just makes forward teslas even more ridiculous, they really should just be s.  

 

 

Yes I do struggle with this somewhat.  Some teslas and most flamethrowers being unaffected by HP loss i.e. the ones pointing out the front and then a bunch that are redoubtable and affected by HP loss and oh by the way the ones pointing out the front might be able to hit a flying model but the other side and back ones can't?  Its also a bit unsettling that weapons can be gunnery if they are a secondary and magically stop being gunnery when they become a tertiary.  Just seems untidy. I don't play any factions with rockets so for me its only really the Blucher, Elbe and the PLC Dread, Landship and Flame Tank that are of concern and in my experience rockets are rubbish in RB1 so I don't mind people shooting them at me until a clarification comes through if they really want to.

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Dystopian Kiwi- Rockets are definitely not Gunnery weapons, and so may target fliers in RB1 from the surface.

 

I will issue a clarification on Tesla and Flame-thrower weapons soon. Note all Speerschleuder (why has my spell-check forgotten this word again...) weapons  have the High angle mar, so this is a moot point for them.

 

James

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