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Samlish

Having real difficulty with KoB vs all local opponents

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Hi everyone, new around here and fairly new to dystopian, it's just taking off in south of scotland so we're all clamouring for advice!

 

We've currently got a number of different factions played, KoB (Me), CF, RC, EotBS, and soon to come along will be Ottomans and Prussia.

 

The trouble I'm having is that the Brittanians just don't seem to be able to give as good as they get... Torpedoes are just awful because of CC, especially since focusing fire dosen't help because CC is per-activation, their battleship while neat because of the shields can't seem to keep up with the impressive broadsides from CF or the terrifying volleys from RC is lackluster...

 

I've tried a few different approaches, Switching between the battleship and assault carrier but again, the loss in firepower tends to hurt.

 

The one thing I've noticed looking at lists here is the profusion of smalls: Most of us tend to take as few smalls as we can, focusing on large and medium. Have I missed something here? They always tend to just get zapped as soon as they're in LoS (That applies to everyone) and never close distance to start being effective. Either that or they get close, get one decent volley off then just get eaten alive.

 

I really love the brittanians, I love their theme and design, and I love the 'tough little ships' feel they have, but I'm feeling more and more like they're not the fleet for me. I look with jealousy at the rocket and dtorpedo jammers, the flamethrowers the freaking invisible ships the **** have,  and at the magic advancing rampart of doom the chinese so love.

 

This may appear to be a whine but I'm genuinely looking for advice here, what sorts of approach do you tend to find works? I feel I need someone to take me back to square one and walk me through a strong list and strategy. I've got virtually every ship in the Brittanian navy at my disposal, and am not against investing in some air if it would help.

 

Help me out guys!

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Hi, and welcome to the game.

 

Firstly, where are you in Southern Scotland? There are big groups in both Edinburgh and Glasgow, and hands on help is normally best.

 

Secondly,  have a look at this thread.( edited in) http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/14694-how-do-you-use-the-kob-effectively-a-beginners-thoughts/

 

I would always advise balanced fleets, with a good mixture of size classes.  Putting to few or too many points into any one area is generally not a good idea. If you tend to minimise smalls, try running with 30-35% smalls for a change, and see how it feels. The British have no end of Guardian Generators at their disposal, which can help with smalls.   It is also a matter of practice, to get a feel for when to be cautious with them, and stay hidden behind terrain or other, tougher ships, and when to break cover and make an attack run.

 

 

What size games? Do you have enough space and enough terrain? The KoB are a fleet that like space to manouver, so if you have too small tables, it hurts.

 

Also, from the way you describe you games, it sounds as if Boarding is little used. If so, several fleets there are missing out on their most powerful weapon. Try a list with lots of Swifts, Vanguards and Tribals, and board stuff!

 

james

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Hi Samlish

 

I've been playing for a while now and am a little, but not much further down the road than your good self.  Don't worry James,, I'll be positive, with the British the torpedo's imho are a bit of a trap, try to use range and snipe.  Our strongest ships, I believe, are our Tribals, they've been buffed lately and really carry a punch.  Also our Attackers are not to be underestimated either.

So if your opponents are bringing few, but big ships, bring a carrier and small ships.  Soften them up and then fly in and board them with Swifts and mini subs.

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Im playing tomorrow and im going to give the British a try

going to give a couple of halifax's a run out and see how they go.

The british strength lies in that their very much a brawler fleet, with redoubtable they have some of the least degradeable firepower around, and like for like their battleships have some of the most heavy firepower going

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I think that winners of every DW tournament should play Kob for their next tournament and prove that it was not the fleet but their skills in the first place :):ph34r:

Bwahahahahahahahaha - No :P

But in saying that, I am actually of the opinion that there nowhere near as bad as their made out to be.....torpedos might be a problem, but the ships themselves are decent.

however the little time ive had to play them didnt showcase them in the best light as its been larely bigger games.

Problem ive seen is KOB players tend to take the ships which look nice but are lacking in stats to make them competative....now this is fine for fluffy play, but when it comes to tournaments where lists get buffed then this doesnt work.

Now, ill be brutally honest, in my gaming circle there is no such thing as light and fluffy, years of trying to one up each other has lead to an escallation which sets us up to always build lists to be as harsh as they can be....which works for us as we tend to spend alot of time at various tournaments. But it also allows us to advise people we come across who want to be more competative.

I will try to give this same treatment to the KOB...more to prove to Presedente that KOB can be competative at the higher levels........its got to be possible.....right??

prime example for me is an Illustrious, ive seen lots of tournament lists with them in, but why?? Personally i think there dross....there slow, and 2 out of 3 weapons require the enemy to be close. Their guns are lacking and almost require you to be side on, which means you sruggle to move towards things you want to bomb.....i know people will say that they have there plus points....but for me and my play style they lack too much to make it into my fleet....id rather take a regent for its devastating gunnery...

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I will try to give this same treatment to the KOB...more to prove to Presedente that KOB can be competative at the higher levels........its got to be possible.....right??

prime example for me is an Illustrious, ive seen lots of tournament lists with them in, but why??

 

If you achieve to convince Mr. P that the KoB ain't half as bad as he tries to make them, you'll earn a few dozens thanks button hits on this forum and a very warm handshake and a cold beer if we ever meet :D.

 

About the Illustrious (or the bigger part of the KoB Airforce): Honestly I think people still think way too much of the pre-updated versions. I have had the fun to play the new Illustrious a couple of times and believe me the new 360° Illustrious is a brutal beast. That being said... I like the Regent too, so no way using those boys is wrong... Have fun with the KoB :)

 

R

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My money is on you being disappointed with the Regent, yes its main gun looks class until you realise everything else shoots out the sides so you have better firepower broadsiding.

 

Really curious to see how you get on, especially with the Halifax as I have them on order from Waugh Games in readiness for the next league event.

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Maybe the turrets on de Illustrious are a bit lacklustre, but last game I play my opponent poured a lot of firepower in it and the thing just refused to die. Eeven when it was no longer obscured. And with the 360 degree movement suddenly lining up and doing bombing runs are a breeze. And because of that it stays a threat, even on its last HP.

 

Can't do wrong with the Halifax, I really love it.

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I dont know....every game ive played against an illustrious it just seems to die and not do anything.....then again it could just be my French list of doom that kills it :P

i think its one of those finese things with a regent....its a medium killer and no more, ignore its torps and have it going across the board at an angle, if it gets to shoot its torps then thats a bonus.. otherwise kill mediums.

booboo, ive not had the pleasure to speak at length with you about the KOB issues and would like to....sometimes i think the issue is looking on paper you want to broadside with the regent as it has a higher dice pool, but after cc and torps its not worth loosing the devastating fore gun

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@Thyphs: My vote sure would go towards Monarch + 2 Halifaxes. I had the dubious joy to play that setup last Thursday and that is something that can surely give you hell... The Halifaxes can eat a ton of firepower and thus keep the Monarch safe in RBIII/II gunning down your fleet. I was able to steal a sneaky victory against my opponents list only thanks to two pretty handy crits and a following heroic commando unit of Turtles that prized the Monarch.

 

R

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Bwahahahahahahahaha - No :P

But in saying that, I am actually of the opinion that there nowhere near as bad as their made out to be.....torpedos might be a problem, but the ships themselves are decent.

however the little time ive had to play them didnt showcase them in the best light as its been larely bigger games.

Problem ive seen is KOB players tend to take the ships which look nice but are lacking in stats to make them competative....now this is fine for fluffy play, but when it comes to tournaments where lists get buffed then this doesnt work.

Now, ill be brutally honest, in my gaming circle there is no such thing as light and fluffy, years of trying to one up each other has lead to an escallation which sets us up to always build lists to be as harsh as they can be....which works for us as we tend to spend alot of time at various tournaments. But it also allows us to advise people we come across who want to be more competative.

I will try to give this same treatment to the KOB...more to prove to Presedente that KOB can be competative at the higher levels........its got to be possible.....right??

prime example for me is an Illustrious, ive seen lots of tournament lists with them in, but why?? Personally i think there dross....there slow, and 2 out of 3 weapons require the enemy to be close. Their guns are lacking and almost require you to be side on, which means you sruggle to move towards things you want to bomb.....i know people will say that they have there plus points....but for me and my play style they lack too much to make it into my fleet....id rather take a regent for its devastating gunnery...

Remember to record what went well/badly with your fleet for further discussion. I guess things to note are range bands, targets, how much damage the KoB give/take.

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If you achieve to convince Mr. P that the KoB ain't half as bad as he tries to make them, you'll earn a few dozens thanks button hits on this forum and a very warm handshake and a cold beer if we ever meet :D.

R

I think the bit that you have yet to understand is that they could be the best fleet in the history of tabletop warfare but Presidente would still make out they were bad as he uses them.....

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I hope you convince him thyphs, then I can take a coa fleet to hard pounding without feeling like I missed an opportunity to prove him wrong :P

Majesty and Halifax might be better than monarch and two Halifaxs depending on how much use you can get out of that lovely guardian generator. If you have subs and smalls in large amounts in your list then I might edge towards the majesty. Two halifaxs are mighty nice though...

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Ha! Your French don't scare me! (Even if your choice of phrase does! :S) I have beaten them more often than I have lost to them... Though I will admit I still cannot think of a better 1k list than your expo tournament one.

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Played a test game last night....just against myself. The KOB vs ROF

It was a decent match up....more so than i thought.

KOB lost a regent, the Tribals and dominion and both Halifaxes

ROF lost the St Malo a squad of Dieppes and some requins

what i noticed was how good tribals are...with a dominion thats some serious rb 2 firepower.

wasnt sold on the halifax....just thought it was too much of an obvious target....but then again i maybe wasnt using them right.

From my French perspective.....i found the KOB quite tough to put serious firepower on. As shields were often stopping crits

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Wow thanks for all the advice guys!

 

So I had a game last night, and it went fairly well. Taking your advice strategos I tried this list to capitalise on the mediums:

 

Battle Carrier (The smallish one, can't remember proper name)

2x Agincourt

 - Attatched Dominion

2x Tribal

 - Attatched Dominion

4x Attacker

4x Swift

4x Orion

 

The battle plan was use the orions to hit targets of opportunity until the enemy closed close enough to let the swifts and attackers (Which were neatly parked behind some islands) pounce, shoot one thing and board another, ideally prizing it. The battle carrier would provide air cover to prevent bombing runs, and the mediums would go hunting for anything scary.

 

My opponent's Chinese Federation list was this:

 

Dreadnaught air fortress thing of doom. (I realised after the game this is an illegal choice to fill the large slot as it's not naval, it's armoured)

Large Dragon rogot

Battlecruiser

2x Dun mini-fort type things

4x flamethrower smalls (The fixed fore channel guys, those really smart when she hides them behind the rampart in the early game then rushes up to hammer the mediums)

3 or 4 (Can't remember)x smalls with the single fore gun and rather vicious broadsides.

 

Her battle plan was simply park the dreadnought on an island and know there was no chance in hell the British could ever kill it, then ride that sweet train to victory.

 

So the wincons were this: She gets kill the smalls, I get commodore's discretion. Seeing her lack of many mediums and knowing she will keep the smalls safe until she's confident they won't get badly hurt, I took the kill mediums wincon. In hindsight, knowing she wouldn't see my choice I should have taken the smalls as well.

 

Deployment was fairly standard for us (Playing on a 5'x4' board, across the width gave us plenty of room) consisting of her dread sitting pretty in the centre and forming a wall with the miniforts to shield the flamethrower ships. I set up my mediums to get the best fixed channels possible in the early game for sniping and she set up the dragon to hunt the mediums. Her battlecruiser set up to move let its guns speak only after it moved, but preventing me from getting an easy shot at it. We both took a mix of fighters and dive bombers which we scattered right across the line. (She had carrier 12 on the dread. I had no chance of gaining Air Superiority)

 

The first turn was uneventful, with bad rolls all around. I lost a small to the guns of the dreadnaught (9AD per gun at RB4... sickening) and she took 1 damage on a mini-fort from a torpedo barrage from the mediums.

 

Second turn was devastating. I sunk two of the little gunboats without flamethrowers and damaged the other two. In return, her dreadnaught's guns picked off a pair of orions, its rockets a third and her battlecruiser scored a double-crit on the dominion in amongst the agincourts, effectively crippling it. This was mostly at RB4. I was gutted at poor rolls on my part. The dragon closed in on my right flank, where I had the tribals and swifts. Its flamethrower couldn't get any damage done, but its rockets damaged an attacker on the other side of the board. It's worth noting the islands were considered large and medium, but the skimmer rules (Elevated +1) were allowing her to more or less ignore line of sight with them. it's very frustrating being shot at by something you can't return fire to because it flies over, shoots then when its turn ends it's effectively a size grade smaller.

 

Third turn was a big turn around. the dragon closed to nearly boarding distance on the right as my mediums finished off the gunboats on that side. the swifts formed a screen making boarding the mediums a headache, or at least unnatractive compared to trying to take out a couple of swifts. The dreadnaught decided to finish off the hurt dominion and single remaining orion. with some incredible AA, the orion shrigged off the rocket assault and would last another turn. the duns contionued moving forward shielding the smalls, which I had basically ignored in favour of simply shooting the duns. one of them took another 2 damage from the agincourts. The turnaround came at the end of the turn. She got aggressive with the battlecruiser, sensing victory may be near on the left, but whiffed its rolls and failed to hurt anything. My last activation was my attacker classes, which shot out from cover and blew a massive hole in the side of the battlecruiser, double-critting it.

 

on turn 4 The first activation went to me, and the attacker class continued their assault on the battlecruiser, sinking it almost casually. (I love those little boats. If you can get them amongst the enemy you'll never spend 30pts better) she moved the dread, and tore the attackers up. Sinking all but one of them. I moved my swifts on the right up to behind the dragon, but wary of its elite crew and security posts, decided simply to fire on it instead of boarding. I scored a crit on it, causing chaos and dissarray. No boarding this turn! Her duns took a few half-hearted pot-shots at my mediums, but to no avail. their flamethrowers damaged the last remaining attacker, giving it 2 corrosion and 2 fire. I considered it a write off at this point (It turned out to be a heroic little boat later). The rest of the turn consisted of the dragon snorting fire dirisively at the tribals, which shrugged off the attack taking only 1 damage, fire and corrosion, and the tribals destroying the damaged dun, finally dropping the wall generator, and critting the other for 2AD damage.

 

Turn 5 things were starting to look desperate for both of us. With her close to her victory, she spent the turn systematically picking off the remaining smalls. My right flank had a stroke of luck and managed to kill the dragon before it had a chance to board. That was a lot of points wasted. Over the turn, all of my smalls went down and she was a mere single ship from victory. Little did she know, I only had to sink or prize the dun and I'd win. I failed to sink it, but I moved my agincourts close enough to board next turn, and my attacker class scored shredded defenses on it with a crit (Explosive dice are the best thing ever). This did not get repaired at end of turn, whereas the previous turn the attacker class repaired all of its problems. Naturally, her smalls moved up and just picked it off. Rest in peace brave souls, you'll never know just how vital you ended up being.

 

Ultimately, it came down to who went first on turn 6. If she went first, the dreadnaught could leisurely finish off my most damaged agincourt, and if I went first, I'd board and prize her dun. She rolled 7. I rolled 8. My agincourts didn't even fire their guns. Sped up and boarded the dun, winning me the game.

 

In short - it was a close game that went right to the wire. The smalls were good, if not stellar. I didn't get the best use out of them. I had a lot of luck in the late game, with redoubtable really shining preventing my steadily more and more damaged mediums from becoming useless. Taking out the dragon without it getting to board was a huge stroke of luck. My battle carrier achieved nothing. the planes it brought kept her dive bombers at bay, which I suppose counts for something, but its guns were never in arc to shoot, and its torps and torp turret were lackluster.

 

It was irritating for both of us that it literally came down to a dice roll. Winning a 4 hour game on the basis of a single 2D6 dice roll is not satisfying, although the rest of the game had been very fun. 

 

I think taking more smalls is really the way forward, and I would appreciate any battle advice or list tweaks you might suggest, as overall I was very impressed with how well this list performed. I would probably swap out the pair of agincourts for tribals, the only reason I didn't is because I didn't have the models available. The battle carrier could then be bumped up to a battleship, which I feel would serve me better.

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Nice report, good to see the kob fighting strong! A quick note on victory conditions though (since you mentioned it being a downside at the end) you don't finish the game as soon as the condition is met. You can only declare victory at the end of the game turn, so winning that roll off would not have decided the whole thing, since the rest of the turn would be played out and (judging by your description) would have been settled by vp difference.

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