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ThePayneTrayn

Boarding, Critical Effects, and FSD tokens

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I encountered an interesting situation in a game tonight, and I was wondering what the community's take is:

 

As Directorate, I successfully triggered a "Security in Disarray" effect via the Firewall Breach TAC card on my opponent's Soryllian battleship, and proceeded to capture it that turn. Because I took over the ship, would the Security in Disarray be discarded, or would it remain in play, and my new battleship having 0 AP until fixed? The game ended that turn due to time, but had it continued, would I be allowed to use the Experienced Engineers to fix that effect?

 

Also, because he was in the process of a Fold Space Escape...what happens if a ship has one FSD token when captured? Or if it has two?

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This is something I've been wondering about for a while, and is best illustrated with a hypothetical.

Let's say Dindrenzi are fighting Omnidyne, and the Dindrenzi Dreadnought has just been hammered by Assault Robot Torpedos, resulting in:

5 Hazard Markers

Security in Disarray

Main Drive Failure

Fire Control Offline (Fore)

PD Offline

1 Crew Point (damn ARTs bypassing Superior Design)

The Omnidyne player launches an Assault, and easily Captures the crippled ship, with 10 remaining Successes, and decides to not instantly Scuttle the ship. Per the Rules on page 78:

The model’s Crew Points are reduced to 0 and its Assault Points are made equal to the number of successes rolled in the Boarding Assault, after Anti-Boarding successes were applied.

So CP is dropped from 1 to 0, and AP becomes 10.

However, nothing in the rules addresses the remaining Critical Effect Markers. In fact, the next part of the rules state, "In the following Turn..." In order to reach the following Turn, you must progress through this Turn's End Phase (p80), which includes the Damage Repair step.

This is one of two places in the book which describes how to remove Critical Effect Markers. The other is with Support Shuttles. I don't think any other rule describes removing Critical Effect Markers. Per RAW, a model with a Captured Marker is not treated any differently.

So the Omnidyne player should roll for each Critical Effect Marker, and each Hazard Marker. Let's say these are the rolls for the Hazards:

1,2,3,4,5

So two Hazard Markers are removed, 3HP are lost (due to 0 CP), and a Hazard Marker is added. This leaves 4 Hazard Markers.

The Omnidyne player rolls for each Critical Effect Marker, and Repairs:

Main Drive Failure

Fire Control Offline (Fore)

This leaves 'Security in Disarray' and PD Offline.

It's now the following Turn. Wanting to keep the Captured Dreadnought, three Support Shuttle Tokens approach to make Repairs:

One Token uses Emergency Medical TeamS, restoring 2 Crew Points.

One Token uses Engineering Crews, removing the PD Offline Marker

One Token uses Engineering Crews, but fails to Remove Security in Disarray

The Omnidyne player activates the Dreadnought, moving it during Primary Movement, and adding a FSD Marker during Secondary Movement. Then, the Dindrenzi player launches a Boarding Assault on the Captured Dreadnought, Targeting the Defensive Systems.

As far as I can tell, the Captured ship (at -6 CP from 8) may only defend with 1 PD (starts with 7PD) and 0 AP, because it still has the Security In Disarray Marker. My instinct is the AP should be 10, as this is what the AP becomes when it was Captured, but I can't find anything in the Rules to support this.

If the end result is 1 success, then 1 HP is inflicted, along with a d3 roll vs. Defensive Systems. If the end result is 2 Successes, then 2 HP is inflicted, along with a roll on the Critical Hit Table, and a d6 roll vs. Defensive Systems.

If the end Result is 6 Successes (remember the Impervious MAR), then the model is Captured by the Dindrenzi player, following the same procedure:

The model’s Crew Points are reduced to 0 and its Assault Points are made equal to the number of successes rolled in the Boarding Assault, after Anti-Boarding successes were applied.

End result, the Dindrenzi ends up with the Dreadnought back in their possession, with some repaired damage, but may only attempt to FSD Escape.

*** Edited to fix the mistakes Ranus_Magnus pointed out. Let this be a lesson to everyone posting via a smart phone. ***

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This is really interesting and I can only safely say you should be able to use Experienced Engineers to fix it, even though it might be strange.

I am also afraid that you would have to fix Security in Disarray even though it doesn't make much sense. (I don't know about anything in the rules saying this is an exception)

I also think as FSD gives you a marker you won't just lose it and continue to charge it - if you captured it in the second turn and it already activated and continued charging then the ship escapes at the end of the turn because you have no way to stop it (you can't undone what has been done in the movement segment of its activation). Also by the rules you have to start charging FSD of a captured ship as soon as possible, so no issue here. When you capture a ship with a Full Stop marker, than you also can't simply move it and have to start the engines first.

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[...]

So CP is dropped from 0 to 1, and AP becomes 10.

[...]

As far as I can tell, the Captured ship (at -6 CP from may only defend with

If the end result is 1 success, then 1 HP is inflicted, along with a d3 roll vs. Defensive Systems. If the end result is 2 Successes, then 2 HP is inflicted, along with a roll on the Critical Hit Table, and a d6 roll vs. Defensive Systems.

If the end Result is 6 Successes (remember the Impervious MAR), then the model is Captured by the Dindrenzi player, following the same procedure:

[...]

 

I think its "from 1 to 0"!?

What does "As far as I can tell, the Captured ship (at -6 CP from may only defend with" say? Are parts of the text missing?

 

As on p.77:

"If, after reduction from Point Defence and opposing

Assault Points, the number rolled is greater than

DOUBLE the target model’s current Crew Point total,

the vessel has been Captured. This should be checked

BEFORE applying any Boarding Assault Damage, if the

vessel is Captured, the damage is NOT applied.

 

Important Note: If the target has no Crew Points and at least

one success remains, the target may be Captured."

 

If the attacker has 1 success more than the defender the model is captured.

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When you successfully board a ship, your number of success minus enemy success rolls should be the new AP value. Security in Disarray shouldn't be of an influence to you in this manner. 

Would be nice to hear clarification from Spartans. 

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Well, they are the new AP value, but are instanly reduced to 0 until the Security in Disarray is repaired. It is strange, but maybe the ship's com system was disabled, bulkheads are down etc. and that denies any coordinated defence.

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Thanks for pointing out my typos (hate it when this happens)

Remember the Omnidyne Player used a Support Shuttle to restore 2CP (which allows him to utilize the Impervious MAR on the Captured model).

Something I though of adding, but didn't want to detract from this topic on what happens to Critical Effect Markers when a model is Captured, is applying the 'Bug Out' TAC to the Captured model. That's potentially its own discussion.

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Now it's come to theoretical question what is actually causing the dissaray so the forces cannot defend themself at all even though they just won the fight over the ship. 

If the effect is something that give disadvantage to defender only, it make sense. 

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Well, they are the new AP value, but are instanly reduced to 0 until the Security in Disarray is repaired. It is strange, but maybe the ship's com system was disabled, bulkheads are down etc. and that denies any coordinated defence.

I think this is exactly right. The same way you benefit from the ship's experienced engineers you suffer from (or at least have to deal with) all the tokens on the model.

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Now it's come to theoretical question what is actually causing the dissaray so the forces cannot defend themself at all even though they just won the fight over the ship. 

If the effect is something that give disadvantage to defender only, it make sense.

As was suggested I think bulkheads are locked and communication and control systems are damaged. The Assaulting Marines are operating purely on orders given before the assault was launched and are focused on getting ship under their full control. The new assault simply takes them by surprise.

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As was suggested I think bulkheads are locked and communication and control systems are damaged. The Assaulting Marines are operating purely on orders given before the assault was launched and are focused on getting ship under their full control. The new assault simply takes them by surprise.

Alright, this explanation make sense, I somehow miss post saying this. :) 

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Thanks a lot for the clarification. Just one more question regarding AP, if they are increased by number of successes then e.g. if ship A with 3AP boards ship B with 5AP and rolls well enough to capture it, then how many AP the captured ship has? 5? As only 3AP attempted the assault they won't increase the AP of ship B. More logical would be to replace AP with the number of successes to a maximum of AP that attempted the assault.

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Thanks Alex; this clarification makes a lot of sense to me. I think the best part is Boarding Factions will be encouraged to bring Support Shuttles so they can escape with their prize.

Quick Question: Having just witnessed Pathogen launch a 22AP Boarding Assault, would the Max AP of a Captured model equal the highest AP of one of the models initiating the Boarding Assault, or is the Max AP the combined Dice Pool when the Assault was launched? In this example, is the Max AP 5, or 22? (Current RAW is 22; just wanted to ensure this is the intent)

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This will be added to the next Errata and Clarifications document, as the post-capture process is rather unclear at present. What it should be is (additions/clarifications added in bold);

  • Boarders successfully Capture ship 
  • Any FSD and/or Security in Disarray markers are removed

HA!  :P

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