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2x hawker, 2x Levi, half core.

Hwaker, recon, levi, full core.

2x recon, 2x hawker, levi, 2x Tyrs, 2x half cores.

2x recon, levi, half core.

Levi, heavy, full core.

2x heavys, half core.

2x heavys, full core.

Drawn once against realthozans.

I would love to see an detailed battle report for one of your games, because my experiences with Terrans is that they are anything but weak. I think I've only ever lost one game with them infact, whereas my Dindrenzi have a much more balanced win-loss ratio. :P

Also, what are your actual thoughts on each of those lists? Which ones were better? Which ones were worse? Which were more fun, and which ones were 'boring' as people keep accusing the Terrans of being?

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All took 3+ shots for 2 turns and 2 or 3rd turn took 3+ shots and skydrop infantry fun. About same ech game so.

What forces is this against? And what are you doing with your various helixes such as your Heavy Support Tank? It is one of the best Heavy Tanks in the game with Pinpoint 4, so should be tearing into things. What are you doing to counter Sky Drop (if anything)? Where are your objective capturing units ending up/being murdered by?

Basically, more info required before you'll convince me the Terrans need a change! As I said, my experience is vastly different to what you are saying, so I'm not sure why that is.  :lol:

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2x hawker, 2x Levi, half core.

Hwaker, recon, levi, full core.

2x recon, 2x hawker, levi, 2x Tyrs, 2x half cores.

2x recon, levi, half core.

Levi, heavy, full core.

2x heavys, half core.

2x heavys, full core.

Drawn once against realthozans.

How did you manage to play such massive lists with such varied armies and still manage to accuse Terrans of simply slowly rolling up the board to die. The Tyr should easily one-shot a Relthozan medium, a beautiful use of pinpoint. Guardsmen should easily wipe any infantry anywhere if theyre a full squadron. The Odin almost doesnt have to move the entire game if you really dont want it to, else it can be a centrepiece pusher. Recon movements should place the majority of your infantry far forward enough to set up positions that are very hard to remove without Nyx level storming. Maybe its just me, but I just dont get it.

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Realthozans so 12 ad heavys do not do much against cloak.

12 AD should be removing a Medium Spider every turn (halving those squadrons, and therefore their firepower). In fact, the Relthoza are particularly vulnerable to Pinpoint due to their 'backwards' DR's. Are you targeting them, or aiming for something else?

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Terrans are fine against Relthoza in a range fight, the thing to look out for is the sky drop.

Relthoza might have superior range AD values but it is the PP that helps bring them to par.

Though I reckon the Baldr needs its 15AD re-instated or the unit given a price reduction due to the unneeded AD nerf. 

Same can be said versing Sorylians, they have bigger guns at range but it is the fact that both units in the heavy helix have PP that brings them close to par.

 

Terrans against Aquan is a hard one, mainly because they can sit back and hit you on a 3+ compared to you hitting them on a 4+ if both standing still.

You also have really annoying crystals allowing flank hits, and they move faster than you and have hit & run. Both factions have access to strong PP elements.

 

Directorate... Probably one of the hardest lists to verse (if your opponent is actually good). If they take 2 wraiths, gg. They'll take apart a heavy helix at range a turn, you also have 2 grand companies waiting patiently.

Whoever thought it needed 5 shields should hang their heads in shame, it was hard enough to kill when it had 3 shields taking into account it out ranges everything in the game. If it sits out at 47" you can't hit it at all with anything in the Terran list.

 

Dindrenzi, gotta watch out for the sky drop and hope your opponent rolls bad and lands in front of your guns.

10" threat range of those Nyx pretty much means that unless they deviate really badly you are going to get hurt.

Basically, if a sky drop marker gets placed right next to your tanks you basically can't move them especially if the marker gets taken down to 1.

If you go on overwatch, and they still come down on a flank chances are you'll only get half of a squad being able to fire at it hitting on 5+ unless they rolled really bad.

If you move, they come down and hurt you really bad.

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I apologise if my replies were too sharp previously.

My issue is slightly different, I don't have all that much issue winning or at least competing enough that it's a mistake by either side or a run of good or bad luck that will decide the game.

The issue (aside from several senseless and unexplained nerfs to Terrans units and buffs to already strong opposition units in ever update) comes with the manner of the games. I'll try to explain:

A current Terran force can only achieve victory by racing forward with almost all its units. This the way they're designed to play, not a problem until you realise thats all they do.

The sole exception to this are Tyrs (baldrs are now just an abomination and absolutely not worth the points) which despite being largely inferior to all other heavys (only pinpoint makes it as feared as it is) is just about good enough to warrant a slot.

But.

This leads to predictability, opponents KNOW that they simply need to kill the tyrs and then kite the rest of the terrans.

At this point, a terran commander has no choice. Charge more and hope the opponent makes a mistake and you can catch them, or stop moving and try an hold an objective for TV whilst outranged and outgunned.

This plays out every. Single. Game. The new recon helixes just make it quicker.

Opponents set out their fields of fire, decide on a target priority list and just sit and pick off the targets in order, safe in the knowledge that the terrans just have to sit and accept the barrage. Opponents are free from having to position units to defend against skydrops they're free from worrying about their rear armour or an enemy unit getting too close for comfort unless they allow it, they know where the terrans are and where they will be.

The same can not be said for any force that has access to skydrops.

Neither side in the game expects anything else. That is a A game against the terrans regardless of who's controlling them or what in their list and its getting boring. Changing the list doesn't change the way the terrans play it just speeds up or slows it down.

The simple fact of the matter is Terrans just arnt as fun to play with as other factions and that's as much part of game balance as rules.

Why should Terrans be the whipping boys for the enjoyment of the other factions?

Why would I recommend anyone play Terrans? For thecsake of the life of the game, id tell them that If they like the models I'd recommend they collect them and play a different force with more choice in their playstyle.

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The simple fact of the matter is Terrans just arnt fun to play with and that's as much part of game balance as rules.

I have to say I am feeling the same at this stage. Also correct regarding the Tyrs and Baldrs.

Tyr is always the primary target, and I have to spend extra points for the extra buffer that is the shield tank parked out in front.

Once our long range damage is taken out, I get to play the 5+ game against hover, or get pummeled till I get within 20" since we lack any real medium range weapons except for the Vidars missiles.

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The simple fact of the matter is Terrans just arnt as fun to play with as other factions and that's as much part of game balance as rules.

Okay, this I can respect and slightly reluctantly, agree with. Terrans are not as fun as skydropping Nyx and Hyperions, or blasting away your opponent with field artillery walkers, or swarming them with drones. This I understand.

But I do not think they are an underpowered faction. Not by a long shot. Their survivability is among the toughest. Their attacks are among the strongest. And yes, while the game is a slightly boring drag to get into range, they usually do so arguably well. Secondary objectives and defending your tertiary is easy with their units.

I like to play to strengths, so I can accept the weakness that is tactical inflexibility. That is almost perfectly fitting in fluff for what the Terrans cannot do well: Adapt. Think about it, their answer to a rebellion was to quell it in nuclear fire.

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I don't think anyone is really saying that they are underpowered. It is more so that once your enemy starts to think "he has some scary guns up close" they tend to not get close.

If your enemy comes to you, it is like a godsend. If your enemy decides to take out your range first and then target your slow 8" flat out moving forces it will test the toughness. Squads can only get so lucky against numerous hits.

The thing with the game at the moment is that TV values are too high, you don't really need to capture objectives between 3k - 4k points (I know some people will argue against this) and due to limited helix releases out most games are usually between those numbers. So Terrans lacking range or real fast hard hitting options miss out. 

 

Once our range damage is nullified, the enemy just has to pick carefully what he wants gone before it arrives.

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Okay, this I can respect and slightly reluctantly, agree with. Terrans are not as fun as skydropping Nyx and Hyperions, or blasting away your opponent with field artillery walkers, or swarming them with drones. This I understand.

But I do not think they are an underpowered faction. Not by a long shot. Their survivability is among the toughest. Their attacks are among the strongest. And yes, while the game is a slightly boring drag to get into range, they usually do so arguably well. Secondary objectives and defending your tertiary is easy with their units.

I like to play to strengths, so I can accept the weakness that is tactical inflexibility. That is almost perfectly fitting in fluff for what the Terrans cannot do well: Adapt. Think about it, their answer to a rebellion was to quell it in nuclear fire.

 

When a large proportion of enemy units have higher speed and ER's approaching Terran LR's then it takes monstrous stupidity on behalf of the opposition player to take anything except long range (and thus hugely reduced attack dice) from a Terran unit, whilst in the majority of cases still being able to reply with full firepower, often stationary and sometimes stationary and then hit and running. But thats part of playing Terrans. i don't mind that.

 

My issue isnt about Over or under-poweredness i'd still demand access to Skydrop or alternative deployment tactics even if they werent as good as they currently are purely to bring tactics into the Terran gameplay. No, my issue is this: why should i keep doing the same thing over and over for the enjoyment of my opponent? the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

I've played all the people in my area, with all the factions they have multiple times. We know now how to beat each other and what match ups favour who etc. the question is, what now? according to some on this thread, thats it thanks for your money and time but either buy a new army or accept that certain arbitrarily picked factions just get more options by default regardless of how unbalanced that is. Sure i'll get alternate models to do the same thing with but its still the same thing. But doing it their way, the only logical conclusion for that is to move on to other games purely for something new to do. That's something I will happily go to bat in the forums and wherever I need to to avoid because this is an excellent game, with amazing models and it deserves more than eventually being dismissed as "Terrans Sorylians and Directorate only do X, Aquans Dindrenzi and Relthozan can do X and Y so you should play them" 

 

Tactical inflexibility may be a Terran Trait (which is open to debate but not in this thread) but for the sake of the game mechanics and game balance as a whole, fluff like this needs to be overlooked to a certain degree. To use a popular example: The same way Space Marines in 40k are nowhere near as good as they are in the storys. 

 

I'm failing to see how giving all races at least limited access to all the basic deployment methods is anything except a good thing for the game. This concept transcends Terran issues (of which there are thankfully, few) and is more of a game issue as its not just Terrans that suffer from 1 dimensional gameplay. I just can't work out where people see the benefit of restricting certain races to certain tactics and thus limiting players enjoyment of the game based on which faction they've chosen.

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When a large proportion of enemy units have higher speed and ER's approaching Terran LR's then it takes monstrous stupidity on behalf of the opposition player to take anything except long range (and thus hugely reduced attack dice) from a Terran unit, whilst in the majority of cases still being able to reply with full firepower, often stationary and sometimes stationary and then hit and running. But thats part of playing Terrans. i don't mind that.

 

My issue isnt about Over or under-poweredness i'd still demand access to Skydrop or alternative deployment tactics even if they werent as good as they currently are purely to bring tactics into the Terran gameplay. No, my issue is this: why should i keep doing the same thing over and over for the enjoyment of my opponent? the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

I've played all the people in my area, with all the factions they have multiple times. We know now how to beat each other and what match ups favour who etc. the question is, what now? according to some on this thread, thats it thanks for your money and time but either buy a new army or accept that certain arbitrarily picked factions just get more options by default regardless of how unbalanced that is. Sure i'll get alternate models to do the same thing with but its still the same thing. But doing it their way, the only logical conclusion for that is to move on to other games purely for something new to do. That's something I will happily go to bat in the forums and wherever I need to to avoid because this is an excellent game, with amazing models and it deserves more than eventually being dismissed as "Terrans Sorylians and Directorate only do X, Aquans Dindrenzi and Relthozan can do X and Y so you should play them" 

 

Tactical inflexibility may be a Terran Trait (which is open to debate but not in this thread) but for the sake of the game mechanics and game balance as a whole, fluff like this needs to be overlooked to a certain degree. To use a popular example: The same way Space Marines in 40k are nowhere near as good as they are in the storys. 

 

I'm failing to see how giving all races at least limited access to all the basic deployment methods is anything except a good thing for the game. This concept transcends Terran issues (of which there are thankfully, few) and is more of a game issue as its not just Terrans that suffer from 1 dimensional gameplay. I just can't work out where people see the benefit of restricting certain races to certain tactics and thus limiting players enjoyment of the game based on which faction they've chosen.

 

Fair points, all of them. I'd then like to extend a question as to HOW they could be improved. Simply saying "I want some Hirdmen that can skydrop" isnt good enough. Theres no flavor or anything, really.

 

What would you like to see that could make Terrans/whatever other races more fun?

 

EDIT: At the risk of sounding like a broken tape recorder, I really think theyre not that one-dimensional. The reason your opponents shoot the Tyr and the Sheriff and whatever more than the rest of your tanks is BECAUSE they do something different. Its easier to wipe your long-range firepower by killing one or two tanks than wiping your entire core helix to remove your close-range firepower.

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Fair points, all of them. I'd then like to extend a question as to HOW they could be improved. Simply saying "I want some Hirdmen that can skydrop" isnt good enough. Theres no flavor or anything, really.

 

What would you like to see that could make Terrans/whatever other races more fun?

 

EDIT: At the risk of sounding like a broken tape recorder, I really think theyre not that one-dimensional. The reason your opponents shoot the Tyr and the Sheriff and whatever more than the rest of your tanks is BECAUSE they do something different. Its easier to wipe your long-range firepower by killing one or two tanks than wiping your entire core helix to remove your close-range firepower.

Well, at 3000 pts I have: 

 

2 - Huk'Ka

1 - Huk'Vok'Ka

1 - Nor'Bar'Ro 

3 - Sor'Ka

 

to pummel Terran forces from the distance, while 1 unit of my Bor'Ka prepare to engage what come close. So, how much of Terran close-trange firepower survive in appropriate numbers before he reach EF?

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Adding flavour to skydropping hirdmen isnt hard. Give the units able to do it access to only breacher teams and a LT and call them helldivers and put them in the assault helix to reinforce the idea that only terran assault units use skydrop. or allow the rumoured flying APC to skydrop, that makes them different to Dindrenzi drop pods but then has balance issue all of it own.

 

i mentioned in a previous post its about alternate deployments.

 

My suggestions aside from skydrop on the assault helix which is the easiest option to implement are:

 

In order of plausibility.

 

Flanking deployment that works similar to Firestorm Armada. Though to use my own arguement against myself, why would Terrans do that and Dindrenzi (for example) not?

Tunneling units 

Teleporting similar to Covenant of Antarctica orb. Again hard to explain fluff wise, but then so is selling the idea that the Terrans (of whom the dindrenzi are a splinter group) wouldnt already have come up with the idea of a skydrop.

An actual orbital lander. It have to be a massive kit, and would be unweildy and hard to balance. But its a suggestion.

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Actually, I think it's pretty fitting for Terran Alliance to have flanking maneuver ability, while Dindrenzi didn't. Since Terran Alliance mostly on the defence at this stage of war, their primary theatre of battle - their own hometurf, so they have much MUCH better knowldge about the territory than Dins, which allow them to find a passage to enemy's less guarded flank. 

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Well, at 3000 pts I have: 

 

2 - Huk'Ka

1 - Huk'Vok'Ka

1 - Nor'Bar'Ro 

3 - Sor'Ka

 

to pummel Terran forces from the distance, while 1 unit of my Bor'Ka prepare to engage what come close. So, how much of Terran close-trange firepower survive in appropriate numbers before he reach EF?

 

Good job. A list that's specifically designed to fight Terrans. What would I bring for about the same point cost? 

 

2 - Odin

 

I'm not saying that your point is invalid. It certainly works. But you're saying that a long ranged list which is designed to destroy Terran close range firepower is going to win. Yes, yes it is. It'd be like me having two Tyrs specifically to counter your Nor'Bar'Ro that I know you'd bring because of whatever reason.

 

 

Flanking deployment that works similar to Firestorm Armada. Though to use my own arguement against myself, why would Terrans do that and Dindrenzi (for example) not?

 

I can get behind this. Flanks are one of the few non-disruptive things that would make sense. And I could see Terrans using it. 

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Good job. A list that's specifically designed to fight Terrans. What would I bring for about the same point cost? 

 

2 - Odin

 

I'm not saying that your point is invalid. It certainly works. But you're saying that a long ranged list which is designed to destroy Terran close range firepower is going to win. Yes, yes it is. It'd be like me having two Tyrs specifically to counter your Nor'Bar'Ro that I know you'd bring because of whatever reason.

 

 

 

I can get behind this. Flanks are one of the few non-disruptive things that would make sense. And I could see Terrans using it. 

TBH, it's my anti-DINDRENZI list.

 

Two squads of Bor'Ka (one 3 models strong ans second have only 2 walkers) and two squads of Ka'Kuns chant "Overwatch" while my long-lange artillery pummel those pesky hover tanks (Gorgos are number 1 target priority, second - unit of TWO Kratos)

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TBH, it's my anti-DINDRENZI list.

Two squads of Bor'Ka (one 3 models strong ans second have only 2 walkers) and two squads of Ka'Kuns chant "Overwatch" while my long-lange artillery pummel those pesky hover tanks (Gorgos are number 1 target priority, second - unit of TWO Kratos)

Thats rather interesting. As an non-Dindrenzi player, I would think that the simple solution to this would be to drop Nyx all over your deployment. Does that not work? 20ish CQB should wipe most of your squadrons with the exception of your leviathan.

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Thats rather interesting. As an non-Dindrenzi player, I would think that the simple solution to this would be to drop Nyx all over your deployment. Does that not work? 20ish CQB should wipe most of your squadrons with the exception of your leviathan.

It would likely take two or three Nyx squads to kill the three-strong Bor'Ka squadron. The Nyx are easily erased by Sorylian Scatter guns, so the Dindrenzi player is giving up 8-12tv and a good percentage of the army's points to kill one 6TV medium walker squadron. Not a good trade.

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It would likely take two or three Nyx squads to kill the three-strong Bor'Ka squadron. The Nyx are easily erased by Sorylian Scatter guns, so the Dindrenzi player is giving up 8-12tv and a good percentage of the army's points to kill one 6TV medium walker squadron. Not a good trade.

Hmm, because of the high DR that the Bor'Ka has, Nyx CQB isnt as good against it. Depending on where your drop pod lands, gun teams might be more effective. A CQB on one or two and then a 15 AD flank of aft shot should take the squad down to one or two HP left.

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Hmm, because of the high DR that the Bor'Ka has, Nyx CQB isnt as good against it. Depending on where your drop pod lands, gun teams might be more effective. A CQB on one or two and then a 15 AD flank of aft shot should take the squad down to one or two HP left.

Fair enough, but it is still going to take at least two squads, and you're not coming out on top of the TV, points, or battlefield assets trade.

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