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Only if the Sky Drop markers can then be put into negatives to account for this, and that's just getting complex.

Also, how would a drop site becomes more inaccurate as you throw more troops at it? Do they take the maps with them? :P

Mainly because you can easily punish a flank with multiple drops onto it.

Having the marker tick up will remove the zero'd in marker bonus (as in rerolling if you don't like the direction)

Also would you fire 4 pods towards the same location that they have the potential to land on each other or space them out slightly?

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Why would artillery designations be erased from records after shelling it? Did they forget where they just fired or run out of ammo?

Yup, I'd explain it away as that particular ship/artillery installation has ran out of ammo and now has to reload, by which time the battle is already over. And re-tasking artillery already aimed elsewhere would take too long (be it due to arguments amongst high command, communication failures, etc, etc...) :)

 

 

Mainly because you can easily punish a flank with multiple drops onto it.

Having the marker tick up will remove the zero'd in marker bonus (as in rerolling if you don't like the direction)

Also would you fire 4 pods towards the same location that they have the potential to land on each other or space them out slightly?

That is the advantage of Sky Drop forces, their speed and semi-adaptability to the enemies tactics. The disadvantages include being severely out-activated at the beginning of the game, your forces on the table suffering significantly concentrated fire due to a lack of viable targets for your opponent, and your battle plan being pretty clear to your opponent due to having to place those markers at the beginning of the game and then focussing on which ones to Zero In as the game progresses giving them time to prepare and react.

Oh, and a Zero-ed In Marker is still hilariously inaccurate. I have yet to have a Sky Drop land where I want it, with either the direction (even with a re-roll) or the distance being wrong. I do seem to love rolling a 6 after I get the direction I want and over-shooting into enemies... :P

But on the subject of the '4 pods at one site', I'm not sure what the issue would be? They all have vectoring thrusters and sensors, so they can't land on each other. It's mentioned in the Passing Over rules that Sky Drop elements can and do use these tools to avoid landing on obstacles, be they friendly, enemy or structural. Which is a shame, as I'd love to use a Leviathan as a psuedo-Artillery Strike...  :lol: 

Anyways, I suppose we had best drag this back to discussing the Terran ORBATs at some point... Although more than happy to keep discussing the advantages and disadvantages of Sky Drop and Artillery until the cows come home to roost...  :P  

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Yup, I'd explain it away as that particular ship/artillery installation has ran out of ammo and now has to reload, by which time the battle is already over. And re-tasking artillery already aimed elsewhere would take too long (be it due to arguments amongst high command, communication failures, etc, etc...) :)

 

 

That is the advantage of Sky Drop forces, their speed and semi-adaptability to the enemies tactics. The disadvantages include being severely out-activated at the beginning of the game, your forces on the table suffering significantly concentrated fire due to a lack of viable targets for your opponent, and your battle plan being pretty clear to your opponent due to having to place those markers at the beginning of the game and then focussing on which ones to Zero In as the game progresses giving them time to prepare and react.

Oh, and a Zero-ed In Marker is still hilariously inaccurate. I have yet to have a Sky Drop land where I want it, with either the direction (even with a re-roll) or the distance being wrong. I do seem to love rolling a 6 after I get the direction I want and over-shooting into enemies... :P

But on the subject of the '4 pods at one site', I'm not sure what the issue would be? They all have vectoring thrusters and sensors, so they can't land on each other. It's mentioned in the Passing Over rules that Sky Drop elements can and do use these tools to avoid landing on obstacles, be they friendly, enemy or structural. Which is a shame, as I'd love to use a Leviathan as a psuedo-Artillery Strike...  :lol: 

Anyways, I suppose we had best drag this back to discussing the Terran ORBATs at some point... Although more than happy to keep discussing the advantages and disadvantages of Sky Drop and Artillery until the cows come home to roost...  :P  

I did say I would agree with Core regarding his suggestion if it didn't start some form of discussion/disagreement, which it did anyway for some reason.

I could still bring up more points but it'll just descend into *** for tat. What's the saying again, debating on the internet is like running in the special olympics?

But we should move this on

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Yeah before we get back on topic...food for thought...

Stationary only affects ER. No sitting back and sniping all game. Hitting on a 3+ is great and I love the fluff behind it and I haven't had an issue with it so far but using tournament terrain against Relthoza it was just a turkey shoot to be honest in favour of my opponent.

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Well, at least relthoza have a problem of a small model count in their big spider mecha aquadrons - kill just one and their firepower are crippled. Though I think their tank hunters are cost too few for their tircks now...!

 

But I think that hover vehicles shouldn't be able to use Placed Shots - to reporesent that they can't afford to lose their maneuver advantage.   

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Yeah before we get back on topic...food for thought...

Stationary only affects ER. No sitting back and sniping all game. Hitting on a 3+ is great and I love the fluff behind it and I haven't had an issue with it so far but using tournament terrain against Relthoza it was just a turkey shoot to be honest in favour of my opponent.

If it was only ER that would screw Sorylians LR guns.

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Good point Althorin, did not take that in to account.

 

Maybe it's just because I need to take my Sorylians out for a spin and give them some LR firepower back instead of having to trundle forward, taking all those hits on a 3+! Generally we all like to move around the board and go for objective but my friend had no reason to move, just sat back and had free shots at me :( Those Relthozian Tank Destroyers are UNREAL.

 

Hopefully future Terran releases will give us something very fast, tough and able to get troops out and about.

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Sorry Spell...

I meant as a change to the game :-p it wouldn't work though either so forget I said anything ;-)

It's just certain armies can literally not move all game. The difference between hitting on a 3 or 4 is quite massive. As I say I do like the whole placed shots idea but without all the Helixes to counter these units hanging out at the back, certain armies have a hard time. Mainly Terrans at the moment. Especially since the Baldr stat change.

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I am finding the Terran military's strategy of taking 2 turns doing nothing but driving and taking placed shots from nearly every Realthozan and Dindrenzi element getting old. I mean even on turn 3 you will not likely be in short range to anything dangerous.

Buildings do not help much as it takes nearly a full turns movement to get around them if you advance from behind them and the heavys are too unwieldy to do that with.

So how do you guys kill anything not drop troops or lights short of throwing Hawker or the Odin at it? Both which get focused down like crazy and the Odin on a poor standoff unit against either of their own Leviathans let alone their heavy Helixes.

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I am finding the Terran military's strategy of taking 2 turns doing nothing but driving and taking placed shots from nearly every Realthozan and Dindrenzi element getting old. I mean even on turn 3 you will not likely be in short range to anything dangerous.

Buildings do not help much as it takes nearly a full turns movement to get around them if you advance from behind them and the heavys are too unwieldy to do that with.

So how do you guys kill anything not drop troops or lights short of throwing Hawker or the Odin at it? Both which get focused down like crazy and the Odin on a poor standoff unit against either of their own Leviathans let alone their heavy Helixes.

On maps with roads, use them. They are very powerful, adding 3 inches of movement in an urban map. On maps without, I tend to use copious shield tactics, and shield tanks tend to be deployed slightly in front so theyll die first (and any spillover tends to bounce harmlessly). Ive also found the Improved Harmonics TAC to be almost necessary for not losing key units.

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I am finding the Terran military's strategy of taking 2 turns doing nothing but driving and taking placed shots from nearly every Realthozan and Dindrenzi element getting old. I mean even on turn 3 you will not likely be in short range to anything dangerous.

Buildings do not help much as it takes nearly a full turns movement to get around them if you advance from behind them and the heavys are too unwieldy to do that with.

So how do you guys kill anything not drop troops or lights short of throwing Hawker or the Odin at it? Both which get focused down like crazy and the Odin on a poor standoff unit against either of their own Leviathans let alone their heavy Helixes.

 

I'm afraid at this moment in time, it's going to be literally "waiting for Air, Support and Assault" to be honest.

 

I'm guessing that the Air Helixes will at least allow us to get stuck in a bit quicker and threaten the enemies TDs etc that like to sit back and shoot.

 

I've generally faired very well against Zenian armies and generally win but my last game was a white wash against a static Relthozian player. It has definitely made me think twice about new tactics etc...although I'm not entirely sure what...

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Our Relthozan player learned almost day one to sit at the edge of the board and blow stuff up from miles out of our range starting with anything that can kill infantry first. Then he just skydrops infantry onto the objectives. Literally sweet FA you can do to counter it except pray you get consistently lucky with shield rolls.

 

But, win/loss ratios aside, as they vary from gaming group to gaming group,  Doing the same tactic for every. game. I. play. for six months has worn my enthusiasm out. If nothing else I need some tactical diversity purely to keep me interested in playing.

 

Having said that, Terrans are not the only faction suffering from a total lack of alternative tactics.

 

I agree that nerfing the Terran ranged support was absolutely galling and totally unjustified. I've said it before but I feel that Terran units statlines are punished way too much in lieu of what shields MIGHT do -if- they worked.

 

TL:DR: Terrans need to have some actual tactical options to counter tactics that they are flat out unable to. Otherwise Terran players will remain with the feeling that they're playing a casino game (will my shields hold or won't they???)  with resin models. Rather than a wargame.

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Hmmm, sound like you do not have enough terrain on the board. Generally speaking, my plan against gun-line armies is to advance in a giant brick up to the Secondary Objectives, using my Heimdalls and Vidars to block LoS to my APCs and Recon Units, then hide as much as possible behind the Objective Buildings out of LR LoS. Then just keep ticking over the Objective points while cycling units around to keep your opponent from completely killing any squadrons and getting their TV. He should rapidly realise that he can plink away at you ineffectively as long as he wants, but you are going to win the long game via Objective TV! :D

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I'd actually argue that our tactics are mostly fixed now because we lack the other helixes. I'm expecting some WW1 style field artillery from the support box, and some Chinook style helicopters from the aerial one. Maybe our tactics might change a little towards shock and awe or something.

Advancing brick wall does get a little stale, I'll admit. I find that Hawker alleviates a lot of that with the artillery markers and fast movers.

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Tactics fixed or not we have 3 of the six helixes. So are you telling me it will be mandatory for Terrans to uss command, assault, or air to compare to other forces which seem to do well enough at this point and will likely only get better with more helixes also.

Telling me to use roads is nothing more than saying the army needs a crutch to work. You cannot expect roads on every battlefield.

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Well, what would you change about the Terrans, or add? Speed? Longer range? Stealth?

I ask, because that sort of stuff is starting to tread on the toes of other factions specialities...

 

Yeah the key word in that is "Specialities". Just because Dindrenzi have the most skydrop ability and the best drop troops doesnt mean you're diluting their "feel" and the game by giving skydrop to the Terrans in one of their helixes to open up their tactical options. The same way giving the Dindrenzi shield tanks or even shielded vehicles in one of their helixes doesnt detract from the fact Terrans shield themselves both more and better.

 

To pidgeon hole races to very specific traits will kill the game as surely as not releasing any units at all.

 

Personally I want the ability make alternative tactical choices. The ability to deliver forces to the battlefield in alternative ways would be my biggest wish. Air transports and or some skydrop would be nice to allow some variation.

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Yeah the key word in that is "Specialities". Just because Dindrenzi have the most skydrop ability and the best drop troops doesnt mean you're diluting their "feel" and the game by giving skydrop to the Terrans in one of their helixes to open up their tactical options. The same way giving the Dindrenzi shield tanks or even shielded vehicles in one of their helixes doesnt detract from the fact Terrans shield themselves both more and better.

 

To pidgeon hole races to very specific traits will kill the game as surely as not releasing any units at all.

 

Personally I want the ability make alternative tactical choices. The ability to deliver forces to the battlefield in alternative ways would be my biggest wish. Air transports and or some skydrop would be nice to allow some variation.

I think the approach of some factions having lots of X, some other factions having a little of X, and the remaining factions have zero X is the best way forwards. A complete lack of access to some tactical options is just as defining of a faction as the ones it specialises in. I personally don't want to see my Terrans getting Hover Vehicles and being able to deploy from Sky Drop any more than I want to see my Dindrenzi get APC's and Shields... 

I'm not against giving the slower factions ways to get up the board quickly though, such as the Recon APC's and the rumoured flying APC's ahmadan mentions.

And as has been mentioned before though: No-one has seen the aerial helixes yet for the Core6. Logically, these are going to shake up how all the factions play, as from what we've seen of the existing Aerial stuff, it's fast... :P

 

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I think the approach of some factions having lots of X, some other factions having a little of X, and the remaining factions have zero X is the best way forwards. A complete lack of access to some tactical options is just as defining of a faction as the ones it specialises in. I personally don't want to see my Terrans getting Hover Vehicles and being able to deploy from Sky Drop any more than I want to see my Dindrenzi get APC's and Shields... 

I'm not against giving the slower factions ways to get up the board quickly though, such as the Recon APC's and the rumoured flying APC's ahmadan mentions.

And as has been mentioned before though: No-one has seen the aerial helixes yet for the Core6. Logically, these are going to shake up how all the factions play, as from what we've seen of the existing Aerial stuff, it's fast... :P

 

 

You've either missed or ignored the point. I don't want to get up the board quicker. I (and at a guess a good few other Terran players too) am fed up of running across the board at gunfire regardless of how quick its done. 

 

To be clear, before starting my response we need to make a distinction between traits and tactics. I don't want hover. or railguns, hit and run, bonuses to skydropping or better infantry I also don't want almost every unit to be able to skydrop like the Dindrenzi can. They're Dindrenzi traits, and should remain Dindrenzi traits. Skydrop is not a trait. Its a tactic. The Dindrenzi  trait is to prefer and excel at the tactic, thus they get bonuses to it and almost all their units can do it. I completely believe other races should have at least some access to any such tactic. Like i believe Dindrenzi should get APCs and artillery but not be as good at them as say Sorylians or whatever.

 

The ability to skydrop units in the enemy rear is a tactic that goes far beyond simply getting troops onto an objective quicker. It allows you to put dangerous units in the rear of the enemys front line, suddenly rear armour values are threatened. Firebases disrupted, reserves depleted before they can be committed. Hover units can be bracketed. Hit and run can be nullified or diminished.

 

I can see from your sig you're a Dindrenzi player. So you know how good skydrop is. I can fully understand you don't want to lose such an amazing tactical advantage over most other factions. But I can also see you're a Dystopian wars player where tactics are shared but MARs and Tech are kept to a few factions each so surely to can see, like Dystopian Wars, for the health of the game either through overall balance or to keep players interested in the game, each faction needs to be able to at least dabble in all the tactics (note: not traits) available. 

 

TL;DR Skydrop is a tactic not a trait. One that all factions should have at least a small amounts of access to for simple game balance reasons and one or two excel at as part of their racial traits. Tech, MARs and faction specific rules should be the dominant defining traits of a faction not denial of a basic game rule.

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I'm with you, BrotherZaah. The Sky Dropping thing is just too good in Planetfall for it not to be more widespread. To compare it to Firestorm, what if there were no Reserves and Shunting was a MAR, and only two core races had it, and one of which was actually optimized for it? Giving the other races slightly faster ships would not alleviate their tactical disadvantage.

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