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danp164

The fate of current assault ships?

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Ok, the new assault fleets look awesome and ill be picking up a pacification fleet to ferry my Planetfall around as soon as they hit the shelves, but it brings up an interesting point, the new assault fleets are mainly assault carrier and cruisers for the core races to deliver there Planetfall forces but a small number of alliance fleets already have assault cruisers/carriers, looking at you WR, will their ORBATS be updated to reflect this new role and if so is it a case of as soon as or wait till the aforementioned alliance races have a stronger presence in Planetfall?

 

 

Curse you for the Directorate Leviathan, Return of the Overseers box and Directorate Pacification Fleet... And the Works Raptor Patrol Fleet while I'm at it!!!!

 

 

This place is like a Resin Crack Den....

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By the look of things, a cookie cutter approach was NOT taken, so I'm sure that nothing was made irrelevant.....

As much as I would love for WR to disappear(they are shady, to say the last), I think the current assault cruisers will be fine.

Spartan is not in the business of making ships or factions obsolete.

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The phrase "Assault Cruiser", especially when in the context of a Planetary Assault Fleet, may well confound people's expectations if they're just expecting ships with high AP. I'd guess that a race like the Aquans view this very differently from the Relthoza, for instance. Also, just because an invasion ship has ground forces on board, does not necessarily equate to it having high AP....can you imagine Nyx infantry strapped into their drop pods on board a Scuta are going to be in a position to defend the ship against boarders? Are troops trained in open warfare on a planet going to know about the vagaries of starship defence? Can they even use their sidearms on board a pressurised space-going vessel?

Totally agree with this. It's not the number of troops on board a ship that should determine it's AP factor. It should be their training and equipment. For example, an armored tank battalion has a lot of firepower in ground combat. Tanks don't help much trying to defend a ship.

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For example, an armored tank battalion has a lot of firepower in ground combat. Tanks don't help much trying to defend a ship.

 

I would speculate it wouldn't even be that easy for infantry that normally operate planetside - no crew served weapons, maybe even no grenades (the outside of a ship may be tough, but the inside probably has a lot of sensitive equipment you don't want filled with shrapnel)

 

On a larger note it does seem kind of confusing when you have Work Raptor's assault(ing other ships) carrier and then factions assault (landing on planets) craft. But I can't think of a different term that would have the same gist to it - boarding carrier? Since it's Works Raptor maybe something villainy like terror carrier?

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Totally agree with this. It's not the number of troops on board a ship that should determine it's AP factor. It should be their training and equipment. For example, an armored tank battalion has a lot of firepower in ground combat. Tanks don't help much trying to defend a ship.

I don't know. I would think it depends on how Gothic your ship is.

But anything that is as cramped as modern warships are, would be a challenge, and special training on knowing WHEN to shoot and where NOT to shoot would be vital.

Though, one question I have, if Relthoza grown warriors are the size of a tank, how would they board a ship of a race much smaller than them (which is pretty much all of them)? Just use Drones?

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Uh I think maybe I worded my question poorly its not so much that I'm expecting the new assault class ships to have high ap, more I was wondering would existing assault class ships have hardpoint options added later to make them planetary assault capable?

Or is it simply a case of the current assault ships being a different class altogether from invasion fleets?

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if Relthoza grown warriors are the size of a tank

Just send in the runts of the litter.  I imagine not all warriors get to grow to that size. Or they have immature warriors as marines, much like humans seem to do.

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The phrase "Assault Cruiser", especially when in the context of a Planetary Assault Fleet, may well confound people's expectations if they're just expecting ships with high AP. I'd guess that a race like the Aquans view this very differently from the Relthoza, for instance. Also, just because an invasion ship has ground forces on board, does not necessarily equate to it having high AP....can you imagine Nyx infantry strapped into their drop pods on board a Scuta are going to be in a position to defend the ship against boarders? Are troops trained in open warfare on a planet going to know about the vagaries of starship defence? Can they even use their sidearms on board a pressurised space-going vessel?

Jack, be careful what you shoot at, some things don't react to well to bullets in here.

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As it is unlikely for transported troops to have the equipment and training needed to board enemy ships they should be considered cargo for offensive boarding actions.

Defence against enemy boarding attempts is a bit different though.

 

Not all parts of a ship will be explosive, especially in a ship that has a lot of it’s internal space assigned to transporting troops, their equipment, and their supplies.

And having troops that don’t know where not to shoot defending your ship certainly comes with risks, but you can minimize those risks by ordering them to leave their heavy equipment behind and defend the less explosive parts of the ship, and anything is better than having enemy boarders who know where to shoot run amok aboard your vessel anyway.

 

And having a boarding party capture a ship filled with armed troops imo would definitely cross the believability line btw.

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As it is unlikely for transported troops to have the equipment and training needed to board enemy ships they should be considered cargo for offensive boarding actions.

Defence against enemy boarding attempts is a bit different though.

 

Not all parts of a ship will be explosive, especially in a ship that has a lot of it’s internal space assigned to transporting troops, their equipment, and their supplies.

And having troops that don’t know where not to shoot defending your ship certainly comes with risks, but you can minimize those risks by ordering them to leave their heavy equipment behind and defend the less explosive parts of the ship, and anything is better than having enemy boarders who know where to shoot run amok aboard your vessel anyway.

 

And having a boarding party capture a ship filled with armed troops imo would definitely cross the believability line btw.

 

I disagree with the thought, the planetfall troops are not likely to be allowed full run of the ship. More than likely they will be confined to a large cargo hold... or even be strapped into drop pods ready for rapid orbital insertion.

 

Secondly, even if the say 1000 troops could have run of the ship. Would they be able to a) be alerted as to a boarding action, B) know where to get to during a boarding action. The ship could have Fold space escaped before the troops had even realised.

 

Thirdly, would they even be any use. The boarding team attacks the bridge (go for a startrek-esque bridge) a single main access point that could be easily defended, blocked off or disabled. Heck, even if the troops started in a cargo bay they could easily be blocked off (or vented into space x) ).

 

Lastly, the only effective way to have the troops protect the ship would be to post multiple teams throughout the ship... lining each corridor... Which would get in the way quite considerably... and be utterly useless when it comes to an orbital insertion... How much time would it take everyone to funnel back through the ships (blocking off turbolifts for ages) re-kitted, briefed, strapped in and checked over ready for launch.

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I have to say I really hope the new assault ships could be at least close to current assault ship in non-invasion games for some hardpoints taken etc.

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I disagree with the thought, the planetfall troops are not likely to be allowed full run of the ship. More than likely they will be confined to a large cargo hold... or even be strapped into drop pods ready for rapid orbital insertion.

 

Secondly, even if the say 1000 troops could have run of the ship. Would they be able to a) be alerted as to a boarding action, B) know where to get to during a boarding action. The ship could have Fold space escaped before the troops had even realised.

 

Thirdly, would they even be any use. The boarding team attacks the bridge (go for a startrek-esque bridge) a single main access point that could be easily defended, blocked off or disabled. Heck, even if the troops started in a cargo bay they could easily be blocked off (or vented into space x) ).

 

Lastly, the only effective way to have the troops protect the ship would be to post multiple teams throughout the ship... lining each corridor... Which would get in the way quite considerably... and be utterly useless when it comes to an orbital insertion... How much time would it take everyone to funnel back through the ships (blocking off turbolifts for ages) re-kitted, briefed, strapped in and checked over ready for launch.

 

or perhaps every soldier that embarks on one of those transports has had training in shipboard combat, every planetfall unit has been assigned their own station or section to man, close to their drops pods with a strict and quick procedure to board them and are fully integrated into the ships anti-boarding/boarding strategies until just before they reach their drop-point and maybe every room and corridor inside those ships has been constructed in a way to be able to take punishment from heavier weapons and sized in way to accomodate mechs and combat suits at a loss of overall internal volume...we have 16/17th century boarding actions going on, which might mean in turn that embarked troops act in a 16/17th century way as well. ;)

 

Considering we don't know anything about internal ship design, tactics, complements (neither of the embarked troops, nor how much man-power of 1 point of "AP" is or the size of a ships crew), overall time that's needed for a ship to get into orbit and ready for a drop, either way could be right.

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This might be true to some extend. If you consider every ship having some security details on board to keep the crew in check, when you have so many troopers on board (and not navy, but army guys) and want them keep in specific areas of the ship you probably need a bit larger security detail. Also it is common for all units to secure their area and keep their soldiers in check, so it's not insane to expect these planetfall units having their own soldiers assigned to security detail and equipped with adequate weaponry. These units would be probably last to rearm and board the dropships/pods.

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Just send in the runts of the litter.  I imagine not all warriors get to grow to that size. Or they have immature warriors as marines, much like humans seem to do.

 

Even Relthozan runts are pretty big.  The "babies" operate battle armor the size of other races' recon cars.

 

Sure, they could possibly get their armor in a Veydreth ship, but I doubt a Human Cruiser would be as spacious.  Carriers and Troop Ships may have spacious sections, but the sections leading to the important control points of the ship would still be limited.

 

A Relthozan Runt would probably be the size of the Alien Queen in Aliens, and that would be a very stunted Relthozan.

 


 

I would like to see the Support Fleet Assault Cruisers gain a Hardpoint to operate as Troop Ships like these new ones.  It would help sell the dynamic of what is an Assault Ship.

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Uh I think maybe I worded my question poorly its not so much that I'm expecting the new assault class ships to have high ap, more I was wondering would existing assault class ships have hardpoint options added later to make them planetary assault capable?

Or is it simply a case of the current assault ships being a different class altogether from invasion fleets?

 

Don't worry, I understood.

 

Personally, I hope that current FS:A assault craft are given a chance to refit for Planetfall scenarios. Maybe something like:

 

0-1 Set AP to 0, This ship can make Planetfall drops. +5

 

Something like that?

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Don't worry, I understood.

 

Personally, I hope that current FS:A assault craft are given a chance to refit for Planetfall scenarios. Maybe something like:

 

0-1 Set AP to 0, This ship can make Planetfall drops. +5

 

Something like that?

Too much depends on what makes an Assault Ship Planetfall-effective to be accurate at this point. But it can be fun to guess.

It may not even be as severe as what you suggested, but just one more Hardpoint option on the list.

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We have learned about two MARs, Planetfall and Durable. We have no idea what the text is, but we know that both MARs can be REMOVED through Hardpoint purchases.

At least, that is what Spartan Alex told us.... He does have a sinister side though, being a Directorate player and all, you never know though. ;)

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So, the point is that these ships are default designed for invasion scenarios, but can use hardpoints and upgrades to become "normal" ships that exploit some of the traits of invasion ships (as well as to customize their performance in invasion games). At least some of these options involve a "trade this for that" quality that will strip the ship of its invasion-specific MARs.

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