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DanSG-19

Giving the Tyrant one last chance

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It's no real secret that my two Tyrant class ships between them have done frak all other than kill a frigate. However, before resorting to the tried and tested Apollos, I'm going to give them one last chance to shine. So, here is a 1200 points list with a Tyrant in it. 

 

Marshall Class Battle Cruisers: 280

- 2x Countermeasures, 2x Decimator Warheads Torpedoes

 

Tyrant Class Battleship: 230

- +1 MV, +3 Wings, Shield Projector (Self), 3 Interceptor Wings

 

Teuton Class Cruiser Squadron: 225

- +1 HP, Beams, Nuclear Torpedoes, Weapon Shielding.

 

Teuton Class Cruiser Squadron: 225

- +1 HP, Beams, Nuclear Torpedoes, Weapon Shielding. 

 

Armsmen Class Frigates: 120

 

Armsmen Class Frigates: 120

 

Plan is for the Armsmen and Teutons to saturate targets with torpedoes while the Tyrant advances. As back up in case the Tyrant fails to do anything useful, I have the Marshalls in reserve to Flank or Shunt as needed and kill off particularly troublesome enemies. Turn 3 onwards, everything advances to gun range. If all else fails, the battle cruisers and cruisers should be able to hold their own. 

 

So, opinions? Am I doomed to failure or is this fleet actually going to do something? 

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The entirety of your fleet (Marshals excluded because they are off the board) will be hanging back using torps leaving the Tyrant as a solitary unsupported advancing ship against enemy gunnery.

The Tyrant isn't an Apollo, don't charge it in like an Apollo, it would be far better off hanging back near your torpedo ships advancing at a rate equal with them, if you really want to accelerate the Tyrant up the board switch out Nuke torps on the Teutons for Wep Shield and have them go with it to provide target saturation, but remember peel the Tyrant off before lines cross, it skirts and skirmishes, it doesn't wade in like an Apollo.

Summary: the Tyrant will advance unsupported and because the opponent has no other pressing targets all the weight of fire will go into it early game.

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You could make one of the cruiser squads more of a brawler. Drop nukes,add weapon shielding. Those 5 hit weapon shielded cruisers are a pain to fight against. Also, your marshals don't need to shunt in. They can advance with the Tyrant too.Though advancing the Tyrant slowly works too.

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I forgot that Weapon Shielding is one of the upgrades, it's Sector Shielding that's built in as standard, so the cruisers should already have it for the points cost listed. 

 

One thing I have learned about the Marshalls is that they can start on the board turn one, and still be useful (go double torpedo launchers!), so I could support the Tyrant with those. I wouldn't go charging in with just the Tyrant because it really isn't the Apollo class, the Tyrant would go with my cruisers and frigates in one block of squadrons, but hang back moving half speed early on to make use of the cruisers' torpedoes. 

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I agree with Meat.....

I would drop the nukes off of one cruiser squadron and add weapon shielding. That cruiser squadron will have the staying power to support the Tyrant. I would also consider swapping the other cruiser squadron for Artemis Destroyers. You get the long range nukes and the benefit of Hidden Killer, most likely forcing your opponent to send a squadron or two to deal with them, drawing units away from your Tyrant. Your Armsman will also provide mutual support to the Artemis if they are within 20 inches with the Beam broadsides.

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Quick thoughts, if I was going to play a fleet like this...my first reaction is your fleet is asking to get shellacked with Torps and SRS.  Only 3 interceptors in a 1200 fleet?  That said...

 

1. No -1 TL on the Tyrant?  This is a 'must have' in my opinion.  For a ship that likes to stay in RB 2 you must give it the tools to do so.  +1 MV is like "why?".  It's not going to need to get anywhere fast!

 

2. Start with the Marshals on the board.  Torpedo spook is awesome.

 

3. The Cruisers shouldn't hang back, they should charge.  Nuclear torps?  Ehhh....maybe not.

 

4. If you want to shunt something, switch out a Armsman squad for Missionaries or consider shunting a Cruiser Squad instead.

 

With the points you save, consider Aquan escorts for the Tyrant.  More PD for your Admiral and minefields to confuse and hurt your opponent round 1.

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Torpedo spook has always worked out worse or the same for me so far, as the hits turn into more 6s, now im using a Apollo instead of the marshals, working much better and cheaper so far. The torpedo values on the marshals arnt good enough, never mind one being limited to rb3. The directorate battlecruiser is cheaper and has 9 torps now that's a torpedo value.

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I'm not deleting your personal experiences with bad luck, but Spook can be great. It's the edge that makes Torps do damage in turn 1/2 whereas otherwise PD takes all the potential away.

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Torpedo Spook on the Marshalls has resulted in a good PD roll stuffing my missiles into a critical hit on cruisers before. It's mainly there for me to have three goes at critical hits up the tailpipe of enemy battleships and dreadnoughts using the Marshalls (2x 12AD from beams and 1x 13AD from the torpedoes). The Armsmen are my go to frigates for nearly all of my games with the Terrans, they have an impact on the battle on turn one and can still harm cruisers and larger ships later in the game with beams. I get that the Missionaries are great at jumping in and surprising large ships, but for some reason I just prefer the Armsmen. Nukes on the cruisers are for utility against small squadrons really. Gives me the option of smiting enemy frigates if I need to.

 

I should be able to get a game in with this fleet at some point this week, so I can update you on how it went. 

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I've found that a savvy opponent simply spaces his frigates 4" apart and nuclear torpedoes are useless. This is particularly easy for your opponent to do in round 1. There is no reason to be crowded in turn 1 and give easy nuclear shots.

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There was a discussion about spacing ships out and some not being in command distance of the model being targeted, thus also unable to link PD. The only way around it if I recall it correctly was forming square with frigate squadrons, so most models are in command distance with any given target, the downside being a rather inflexible formation that will poop itself the moment it has to fly around terrain or try to get a firing solution. 

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After 6 battles using the tyrant its a pretty essential ship for the terrans I would say since its some way to get some srs without having the carrier. However, so far elite crew and countermeasures have been disappointing rules to have as they don't seem to have regular input in the game. Elite crew came in handy in some gas clouds but that was it.

 

Countermeasures sounds like it should be a mar vs incoming srs or torps. Maybe something like when targeted by srs or torps you gain 1 pd.

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Well, I had a game yesterday using a different list (1000 points) but still with the Tyrant. And she finally, after I don't know how long, managed to hit something and do some damage. Scored a critical hit against a Directorate dreadnought, which proceeded to blow the reactors up. That single shot effectively won the game for me on turn 2 of the game, and shifted my strategy from wiping away the other Directorate ships and leaving the dread alone, to focusing down the dreadnought for the battle log swing. 

 

Is that to say that the Tyrant is the better battleship? I would still say no. That beam barrage was a stroke of luck, and it won me the game, but I wouldn't count on it happening again and for the other three turns, the Tyrant did little other than its usual Interceptor hangar job and sniping the odd escort or frigate. I have to say that the Apollos have still done more in the games they have appeared in, than the Tyrants have. Will I include the Tyrant in a list again? Yes, it's a little different to the Apollo and it brings different tools to the game. Is it now my go to battleship? Nope. Apollos will remain my go to battleship for the time being, they have been so much more reliable in damage output and soaking up damage, so much so that they will probably appear in most of my lists. 

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Like you said, Dan, I'm not sure anyone could say that either battleship is "better" than the other, seeing as they fill rather different roles in the fleet. Personally, I love the Tyrant as the fleet-anchoring tank that she is; the versatility of the weapon arcs at 20" (one 15-dice salvo or two decent 9 and 11-dice attacks) and an array of useful upgrades make it the center of most of my fleet builds. To me, the main trade-off is the exchange of re-rolling 1s under 10" for superior reach. Then again, my playstyle in general tends to be more stand-offish, so maybe it's just a better fit for me in general.

 

My main question for you is this: what are your main targets for your Tyrant? Do you find yourself moving it against frigates more often than cruisers or T1s? Or does it just usually fail to roll well against heavier targets for you?

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For some reason, the Tyrants fail to hit against anything. Up until that critical hit reactor blowout on a Directorate dread, the most they had done was scratch paint on an uncloaked Relthoza BB and blow away a Relthoza frigate. My dice rolls with the Tyrants almost always can be described as 'clucking bell'. I did joke with my opponent that the only reason the Tyrant hit is because a dreadnought is bigger than every other class of ship in the game currently, it couldn't miss no matter how hard it tried. As for targets, I tend to make sure it has at least something to shoot at, regardless of if it is a tier 3, 2, or 1, squadron. It just tends to miss whatever it tries to point at. Most of the time, I aim for Tier 2 and Tier 1s. Has the added bonus of inflicting 'oh god, a battleship is getting close to me!' on the opponent. 

 

The Tyrant does have some nice toys to play with, don't get me wrong. It has a great utility as Interceptor carrier and as a speed demon of a battleship (+1 MV and -1 TL? oh where have you been all my life!?). It is also just as tanky as an Apollo. But for some reason their guns just never hit, except for THAT critical hit. My Apollos, painted up to look as shagged out as the Galactica, will routinely make enemy squadrons go away as if it's another day at the office... 

 

I don't know, maybe it's just me having some sort of effect on the Tyrants, making them miss. Maybe my dice don't like them...

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For some reason, the Tyrants fail to hit against anything. Up until that critical hit reactor blowout on a Directorate dread, the most they had done was scratch paint on an uncloaked Relthoza BB and blow away a Relthoza frigate. My dice rolls with the Tyrants almost always can be described as 'clucking bell'. I did joke with my opponent that the only reason the Tyrant hit is because a dreadnought is bigger than every other class of ship in the game currently, it couldn't miss no matter how hard it tried. As for targets, I tend to make sure it has at least something to shoot at, regardless of if it is a tier 3, 2, or 1, squadron. It just tends to miss whatever it tries to point at. Most of the time, I aim for Tier 2 and Tier 1s. Has the added bonus of inflicting 'oh god, a battleship is getting close to me!' on the opponent.

The Tyrant does have some nice toys to play with, don't get me wrong. It has a great utility as Interceptor carrier and as a speed demon of a battleship (+1 MV and -1 TL? oh where have you been all my life!?). It is also just as tanky as an Apollo. But for some reason their guns just never hit, except for THAT critical hit. My Apollos, painted up to look as shagged out as the Galactica, will routinely make enemy squadrons go away as if it's another day at the office...

I don't know, maybe it's just me having some sort of effect on the Tyrants, making them miss. Maybe my dice don't like them...

You do realize that you choose the targets, allocate the AD via linking or not....

And the Dice determine the outcome, right?

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That's fine because then you cant link your pd.

With a command distance of 5" to 8" on most factions it's entirely possible to spread every model in a squadron more than 4" apart and still have a few squadron mates link PD with the target.  Formations of triangle, box, or even spoke on a wheel are common and useful.

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