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Voluntary Decompression

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spartan Games would you please clarify that Voluntary Decompression is an Optional Rule requiring both players to agree to use it. I know the answer is yes but there seems to be confusion because the wording of that Optional Rule does not specify it (even though other optional rules state that ALL optional rules are, in fact, optional rules.

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Here are all Optional rules from the Rulebook:

Blind Fleet Selection

Moving Terrain

Voluntary Decompression

Victory Points

Here's the best definition for how to handle optional rules:

Like all optional rules, Moving Terrain should only be used if all players agree to its inclusion, or if its inclusion is mandated by the scenario being played.

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Please don't tell me that some poor Spartan employee is now going to have to errata the meaning of the word 'optional'. Clearly, use of the rule in question has to be agreed on by both players before the game. Hell, I'm looking at P74 in the online version of the rule book, and it has 'optional rule' written above the Voluntary Decompression rules in big black letters! This isn't bloody Battlemallet, where the word optional is translated into 'oh, it must be OP and I need this to win'. For crying out bloody loud! 

 

 

Apologies in advance for the rant, but this sort of rules lawyering really, really hacks me off. 

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Please don't tell me that some poor Spartan employee is now going to have to errata the meaning of the word 'optional'. Clearly, use of the rule in question has to be agreed on by both players before the game. Hell, I'm looking at P74 in the online version of the rule book, and it has 'optional rule' written above the Voluntary Decompression rules in big black letters! This isn't bloody Battlemallet, where the word optional is translated into 'oh, it must be OP and I need this to win'. For crying out bloody loud! 

 

 

Apologies in advance for the rant, but this sort of rules lawyering really, really hacks me off.

Well, that is often a person's first experience with tabletop games. Their sloppy rule-writing tends to make one study semantics just so the model can use the rules it comes with. But that also leads to people trying to "game" the system, too.

My first experience was Battletech, which definitely colors my view of things.

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Spartan Games,

Thanks for the response. The judges at the Adepticon "North American Championship" interpreted it as mandatory so boarding races were hindered by their interpretation and refusal to contact you for clarification.

If you do not want input from fellow players, don't post to a public forum.

Try this email address......

Rules Enquiries: rules@spartangames.co.uk

:blink:

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Spartan Games,

Thanks for the response. The judges at the Adepticon "North American Championship" interpreted it as mandatory so boarding races were hindered by their interpretation and refusal to contact you for clarification.

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but since when did 'optional' = 'mandatory'? When did that happen? Unless the English language is even more screwed up than I thought, 'optional' and 'mandatory' are complete polar opposites! 

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As a general rule, tournament organizers get to decide which optional rules are in effect at their tournament.

 

It should, however, be told to the players ahead of the tournament though (I've no idea if it was or not, I'm ~5000 miles from that tournament! :) )

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Players were made aware prior to their first game of this optional rule being in effect (used) for all games at the Adepticon tournament.   That's not a Spartan Games decision, that was the tournament organizers' choice.

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Players were made aware prior to their first game of this optional rule being in effect (used) for all games at the Adepticon tournament. That's not a Spartan Games decision, that was the tournament organizers' choice.

Thank you for shedding light on this situation.

Based on the tone of the OP, I suspected we were not getting the complete story.

Optional Rule Voluntary De-Compression When boarded, some Captains resort to extraordinary measures to see the attackers off their ship. Immediately before rolling their Anti-Boarding dice pool, the commander controlling the model that is the target of the current Boarding Assault may opt to open some of its airlocks, exposing their enemies to the void. The defending model immediately gains D3 Hazard Markers, and the number of successes from the incoming Boarding Assault is reduced by D6-2. The Hazard Markers must be rolled for normally during the End Phase of the turn along with any other Damage Effects.

I'm not sure how gaining D3 Hazard makers and a D6-2 reduced from the Boarding Assault is as you put it:

Spartan Games,

Thanks for the response. The judges at the Adepticon "North American Championship" interpreted it as mandatory so boarding races were hindered by their interpretation and refusal to contact you for clarification.

So if your opponent had SRS and Escorts providing PD, that would not have been hindering(and unfair?)? :blink:

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I played in the tournament at Adepticon and I did not find out till the day before about the possible use of this rule. I was never informed before or during the tournament that this rule was in effect. If I knew this rule was in effect prior to coming to Adepticon, I could have changed up my list. If a tournament organizer is going to use optional rules they should state it up front in the rules they put out to the participants. I think this has been a learning experience for all involved and hope that the next one they do a better job.

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Most games, receiving three hazard markers to prevent a Tier 1 from being captured by a dedicated boarding fleet is a great trade. In other words, some factions benifit a lot from this optional rule, and others like Directorate, Works Raptor, and Terquai, are only hurt by it.

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Boarding factions have no use for this rule where others can only benefit from it, especially with the use of Focused Repair. Each ship can try boarding only once per game and if they fail for the use of voluntary decompression than that's it. All hazard markers can be repaired with a chance to have no effect at all and attacker is just totally screwed. Pretty bad rule in my book. There should be some permanent damage to the defending ship or some other limitation (like for the next activation, harder repair in the turns end phase etc.).

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Boarding factions have no use for this rule where others can only benefit from it, especially with the use of Focused Repair. Each ship can try boarding only once per game and if they fail for the use of voluntary decompression than that's it. All hazard markers can be repaired with a chance to have no effect at all and attacker is just totally screwed. Pretty bad rule in my book. There should be some permanent damage to the defending ship or some other limitation (like for the next activation, harder repair in the turns end phase etc.).

3 potential Hazard Markers is very brutal.

The chance to actually clear all the hazard makers is pretty slim(I don't know the percentages) through normal damage control rolls.

Using Focused Repair requires you to play it preemptively to clear one Harzard Marker the turn the boarding action/decompression takes place. Unless you can not clear the other potential two you have....

Support Shuttles help, but that only aides one roll.

I think the three Hazard Markers is a fair trade. Most of the true boarding ships have Second Assault MAR, so they get a second swing next turn.

Do you feel lucky? Well do yah? Go ahead, make my day, I dare you to Explosive Decompression again. :D

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Three Hazard markers are only brutal on Small ships, because it will probably kill them in a turn or two. For everything else, it might result in loosing 2-3 crew two turns later. This would be a problem if this model was boarded again... But the boarding unit can't launch another assault.

Do any Pathogen players use this optional rule?

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3 potential Hazard Markers is very brutal.

The chance to actually clear all the hazard makers is pretty slim(I don't know the percentages) through normal damage control rolls.

Using Focused Repair requires you to play it preemptively to clear one Harzard Marker the turn the boarding action/decompression takes place. Unless you can not clear the other potential two you have....

Support Shuttles help, but that only aides one roll.

I think the three Hazard Markers is a fair trade. Most of the true boarding ships have Second Assault MAR, so they get a second swing next turn.

Do you feel lucky? Well do yah? Go ahead, make my day, I dare you to Explosive Decompression again. :D

 

With my Directorate I use cyber a lot and I know hazard markers are a joke unless you have at least 2-3 on a ship. And as you roll only D3 there it's not that crippling and you have a high chance to just have one or two. At the end of the turn you have 50% chance to repair them and only 16% chance to get another one. So if you receive two there is very high chance you repair one and second without rolling the 1. Next turn you play Focused Repair to be sure and it's all done.

Only time when hazards work is when opponent rolls bad every time and that happens one a year or something. WIth cyber often resulting in hazard markers I know...

 

On the other hand only two ships in the whole fleet can have Second Assault - Persecution and Anarchist. Both of them have to buy it and have to buy AP upgrades too. So I pay something like 20-30 points for Persecution to have good boarding potential and you just wash it away with decompression. Anarchist is the same with 30 points. That's not fair. Not to mention that designated boarding ships like Vanquishers (with SF) or Subjugators don't and can't have Second Assault. Their high AP are accounted for in their points cost and this rule completely bypass this with only POSSIBLE issue of CP damage or eventually HP damage where it can greatly reduce or cancel any damage from the boarding. With so many chances to repair it and only suffer mild CP damage I think it's a very bad rule for general use. It's funny for some cinematic games etc. but for general use completely off.

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Tell Terrans Hazard markers are no big deal. Every point of CP loss to a Terran Large is a big blow.

Also I am bitterly amused by Directorate complaining about a rule that washes away a strength, a fleet that can "pay to win" by buying Bio and outright voiding a core Terran rule. That annoyance you feel at Decompression "negating" your boarding, that's the annoyance Terran players feel every time a Bio weapon says nope to a non-optional integral faction rule and you just keep getting more of the candy. At least the rule that voids something you pay for is not a core rule, it's optional. Ours isn't optional we are forced to cop the cost in both stats and points while you merrily stomp all over it.

Bitter amusement ignore me that isn't aimed at an individual.

But just because you don't see it as a cost doesn't mean it isn't, because three Hazard markers is a cost not to be taken lightly, remember the other side.

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You also fail to see the other side...try to play sometime against that heavily shielded fleet with you having shields only on larger ships. It can be a pain for both sides. Directorate pays for their toys and these toys don't work every time...so. For everything you take into a batlle you pay with points, but don't pay for decompression.

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That's why the attacker has got to pick the correct moment otherwise if boarding was easy it would end up like DW. And you generally only get a 50-50 chance of repairs so statistically one hazard should be left and then crew die so there's you negative effect :-P It's only opening an airlock not ejecting part of the ship after all

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