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ToySoldierMick

Disembarking question about "cannot be placed"

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2) When Disembarking, do you first place the Infantry models in base to base with the transport and then
move them, OR do you simply measure the Cruise move from the transports base and then place the Infantry
models?
Place the Infantry models in base to base with the transport and then move them. Any models
that cannot be placed are removed as casualties, incurring a Disorder Test where applicable.

 

 

So my question is, do you have to place the whole disembarking unit in base to base (any that can not fit die) and THEN move?

Or, do you place them in contact and move them one by one as they exit the transport? (making way for those behind them).

I can see losing models because there's no space to fit them as they exit the transport with enemy very close, but not because the transport happened to land next to a building...

 

 

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I hope Spartan reviews this rule and changes it back to what it says in the rulebook. I cannot believe that they added rules to an FAQ. That is just a horrible idea. Beyond that, I really don't like this new rule for disembarking. First off, it is confusing because the rule only mentions transports. So apparently infantry can pop out of buildings however they like, but they need to be base to base with a transport before moving? Sorry...inconsistent. And you don't want the rule applying to buildings.

 

From a cinematic viewpoint, it doesn't make sense, and from a rules standpoint, you are penalizing a unit that already has risks associated with its use. You want to encourage players to use drop pods and transports...not make it harder for them.

 

Plus, it adds a level of complexity to the game that is just not needed. You want to speed up the gameplay, not bog it down by forcing extra placements and extra rolls.

 

Here is my official request to leave it as stated in the rulebook, and for clarification, change the FAQ so that units simply measure their starting point from any spot on the transport or building.

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The rulebook pdf is dated as of February 18th. That's what I would base my ruling on. With the transport as the origination point and the pic to illustrate, I'd say each stand of infantry gets their Cruising Movement from any point on the transport model, transport base included.

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Using "another company's" official way of handling it for tournament purposes...

  • Rulebooks:
    • 18-FEB-2015
    • 24-FEB-2015
  • FAQ:
    • 22-DEC-2014

The "Old" FAQ wouldn't apply to the new PDF rulebooks. Not that I'm saying it must apply here, but it is a point for Spartan to think about.

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If units couldn't die from not fitting then youd have bases overlapping. Something that is against the rules. They'd either lose a stand or not be able to disembark at all.

I think the more elegant solution would be to run it how they originally printed it, but put in the instruction that you move each base through its cruising move one by one.

Currently, with the timeline of books MaxToreador listed, and your very valid point about overlap/no disembarking at all, this whole function within the game is an absolute mess.

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You would not have bases overlapping. If, after using the cruising movement you could not fit in a base, then I could see it being destroyed. I would think that would be a very rare instance. As it is though, it still isn't supported in the rulebook. In fact the rulebook's only other similar example (dropped model landing on others) is to move it further until it can fit.

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I agree, if every base got to perform a cruising move without having to have the whole squadron first placed in base contact with the transport, overlapping bases would be exceptionally rare, and in thos circumstances, I would be fine with them being destroyed.

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"base to base" does not ONLY mean flat edge to flat edge....you can touch a corner..unless I missed a definition somewhere?  We here have always placed ALL disembarking models in this fashion and THEN moved them, since infantry don't worry about pivoting. 

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Sorry to be dense. I assumed the disembarkation rules from the most recent PDF trumped previous editions and the FAQ. Would love some Spartan clarity. It seems really clear from the Feb 18th and 25th PDF that there's no mention of base-to-base contact unlike the FAQ. Sorry to be a dense deficit to the rules conversation.

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I would like to further add, that the illustration on Page 72 of the new PDF adds to the confusion since the infantry in their current rotation could not have all fit against that side of the vehicle and they could not have had enough movement to end up in that configuration without having come from the vehicle directly. (At least that is how it appears to my eye, without cutting the picture apart and measuring, I could not tell for sure.)

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Never been an issue in all of my games. It actually makes you consider where to disembark (as a Terran player) and there are no rules to say which facing your infantry must be so you can generally place them all sideways on if need be.

 

Same with Dindrenzi - I've never not been able to place 4 Nyx around my drop pod and move. If anything, it lets you move further.

 

It's a very fast game as it is and this hasn't really ever slowed our games down at all.

 

*shrugs*

 

Although it does need clarifying quick with a final FAQ for everyone.

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Never been an issue in all of my games. It actually makes you consider where to disembark (as a Terran player) and there are no rules to say which facing your infantry must be so you can generally place them all sideways on if need be.

Same with Dindrenzi - I've never not been able to place 4 Nyx around my drop pod and move. If anything, it lets you move further.

It's a very fast game as it is and this hasn't really ever slowed our games down at all.

*shrugs*

Although it does need clarifying quick with a final FAQ for everyone.

It is mainly a Relthoza problem 8 spider drone bases is a squeeze if one or 2 sides of the pod is blocked for exit. Add in the fact that they are militia (regular in nexus) and they can dissappear just from disembarking.

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It is mainly a Relthoza problem 8 spider drone bases is a squeeze if one or 2 sides of the pod is blocked for exit. Add in the fact that they are militia (regular in nexus) and they can dissappear just from disembarking.

 

You're right in that would be a pain in the arse. The Relth have almost no room for error, the one potential saving grace if you must deploy first could be page 81 under Passing Over Models.

 

 

 

... must travel further down the direction of Deviation until such time as it - and any assets being transported - can deploy.

 

I'd imagine the vast majority of the time if you're dropping close enough that you can't deploy then you likely skipped over a model or three already.

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Scanning back over the old rules (hard copy rulebook), FAQ, and new rules(PDF).... I think this was changed for balance and simplicity.

 

Ex. My Din droppod comes down and before moving my Nyx as part of their disembark I have to place them touching the droppod. How do I place them? Short side touching the pod of course. Rotation is a free action, I can fit more units closer to the target, and I get over an inch of free movement.

 

Yeah 'technically' you should account for the difference in distance due to the free rotation but who the heck is going to sit there and micromanage the movement? Meaning most players are going to measure the distance from the closest base edge to the 'targeted' location and just move the model with no part of it going past the maximum distance that the origin edge could have moved before continuing on to the next model. Which is kinda how I think the game is intended to be played, not getting bogged down in millimeters and 1-2 degree discrepancies constantly. It's all just simpler and faster to treat vehicles and buildings the same as the disembark/exit movement origin point than expecting people to "measure" their rotations.

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Forgot about our lovely Spider friends and their masses of drones. In that situation I'd simply allow some discrepancy for the Relthoza player. I don't think I could be that mean and kill stuff off just because it can't fit around the base.

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You're right in that would be a pain in the arse. The Relth have almost no room for error, the one potential saving grace if you must deploy first could be page 81 under Passing Over Models

Well the quote I wanted didn't come up, but does this mean that I keep going down the line until I can deploy all of my infantry, not just the base of the tower?

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Well the quote I wanted didn't come up, but does this mean that I keep going down the line until I can deploy all of my infantry, not just the base of the tower?

 

Correct, so most of the time your pod (and troops inside) will be fine.... though it does screw Relth and occasionally Din in tighter urban maps because we can potentially scatter off board due to it. General rule though, if a leviathan can walk through the street your pod can likely drop there with no casualties. 

  • Pod: 70mm
  • Infantry: 30mm (short side)
  • Leviathan: 100mm

[infantry]{Pod}[infantry]=~13cm

 

So, just 3 more centimeters than the Leviathan base... which I think both the Din and Terran mech's have 13+cm wide shoulders.

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