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ahmadan

The new RotO ships

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The shooting around corners is why I bailed on Planetfall.... it felt to ummm.... "magic" and fantastic sci-fi to me.

I will continue to reserve judgement until I play at least the games to make a call.

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Just looking at a photograph of the stats for the Sulis, half of the rules for 'Energy Locus' are cut off but I think I make out part of the phrase for 'Command Check.'  I'm sure it takes a command check in order to redirect a shot.  Plus there's the other phrase 'once per turn.'  So you're not going to be bouncing shots around the board with every activation.

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the text ont he facebook leak says if you fail the command check you reduce the AD of the attack... i do almost prefer the crystals in planetfall as you shoot it then the sucesses become the AD of the next attack (however i dont use them much any more due to the 110 point sir sir tax then 40 points per just to bend shots) but it appears in armada it just bends the shot which is interesting and i agree it wont be seeing much use in my lists as it is easy BL but as an upgrade to my gunships i might just to try it out....

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The shooting around corners is why I bailed on Planetfall.... it felt to ummm.... "magic" and fantastic sci-fi to me.

I will continue to reserve judgement until I play at least the games to make a call.

That's an oddly specific reason to bail on a game.

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That's an oddly specific reason to bail on a game.

That's not the only reason, but it was very high in the list.

For me, if I do not like this new MAR/Mechanic, I will not be fielding these ships. If they prove to be "must take" by the community because they show to be a near auto win squadron, it will hurt the game. No other faction had an auto win button yet, nor should there be.

To be clear, I am not saying these new heavy cruisers are auto win, nor an I passing judgment. I need to play with them few at least three games first.

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That's not the only reason, but it was very high in the list.

For me, if I do not like this new MAR/Mechanic, I will not be fielding these ships. If they prove to be "must take" by the community because they show to be a near auto win squadron, it will hurt the game. No other faction had an auto win button yet, nor should there be.

To be clear, I am not saying these new heavy cruisers are auto win, nor an I passing judgment. I need to play with them few at least three games first.

 

I doubt they are must takes for the reasons people have stated (cost, maneuvering, etc...)

 

As for Planetfall - were you more concerned about playing with or playing against crystal formations?

 

After playing the 2 player set, the crystals really aren't a huge deal. Target them and destroy them if they are threats - ignore them if they are bad placements. If you are worried about playing with them - ignore them! I think dropping the Sirsir tax and Crystal costs could allow spending or more effective (or fun) units.

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For the record, I don't think the new RotO ships are broken. I just don't think they're any fun for me. I like the position of ships being important, because after all, I spent so much time painting them! I enjoy fast moving ships that let me play "smart aggression." To the extent that this addition means that Aquan ships no longer need to care about orientation (unless I chose to exclude those ships from my collection), they would suck a lot of the fun out of the game for me. Although I believe that "ignores the rules" is a very dangerous game mechanic to include, I don't think it's impossible to balance. Just difficult.

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I don't see that the orientation factor is removed from the game. You have to spend a bunch to get around that and invest in ships that aren't contributing as much raw firepower as the non-standard vessels. It also depends on how the redirect rules function. ( I haven't see them)

 

These aren't ignore the rules ships either. They are additions to the rules. Ignoring rules would be if the ship just allowed any ship to fire out of arc. It doesn't - it does a redirect - which is different.

 

On the fun aspect - that's what the game is all about! :) If you don't like something in a fleet - definitely don't use it :) 

 

And if you don't like playing against it .... destroy it first :D

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Could you use the redirecting ships to fire both your broadsides at 1 target?

 

So when you broadside you could have your ships on the opposite side to your target (but within 20"...) and then redirect the shots so you essentially have 2 of your arcs firing at the same target? 

 

Could be useful up close. 

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sadly it appear to be designed that way? you can take 2 as escorts for the oannes, but for any other ship you would likely have to have a squadron out of coherancy to make this trick work i do wonder how that would work as the rulebook says: If the Command Check is failed, the model/ Squadron is considered to be Disordered and as a result cannot use Firing Options, launch Boarding Assaults, make any Targeted Strikes or be affected by any Tactical Ability Card played by their Admiral. 

 

so i suppose is the locus a "firing option?"if it is then the oannes is the only one who can take advantage of this trick i suppose you can take one and put it slightly ahead of the tier 1 to bounce your shot around, the best way to mitigate the loss of easy BL is then to take it in a unit of gunships, forcing gunships to be tied to a tier 1 that has turned a flank to cross a T seems like a bit of a waste of  9+(9+6)= 16 AD at RB2... can you line up all these shots at one target? of course... will it be more of a situational thing than something you plan for? likely... hmm... looks like a nice amount of AD my gunships may never leave home without a sulis!

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Pretty sure that only applies specifically to command checks to avoid disorder uhoh22. This is way more likely to work like Sirens and Target Acquisition. Failing the check won't totally screw you, it just won't help you (I think).

I think the described trick will work just fine. A BB can shoot its port weapons at a target, and if it has a Sulis in the starboard arc it can fire the starboard weapons at it and let the Sulis redirect it back to the same target. Nothing says the Sulis has to be in the same squadron as the shooter to redirect (that I've seen) so coherency wouldn't be an issue either.

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Just read the rules for it, and the possibilities are huge.

 

No need to be in the same squad, just a simple 2 successes on the command check. If it fails reduce it by 2 shots if not increase by 2 shots. 

 

You can have your ship fire its for guns at a target, then have it fire its side guns/rear guns at the same target. Or you could make use of tac cards and fire one arc at the front/side of the ship and another arc bounce into the rear. You can fire around corners and increase the range of a range band by 20" while at the same time arcing shots for or increasing the squadrons fire power.

 

I will definitely be making use of these, probably keep them on their own so they can be where they are needed without command checks.

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The trouble with them being in a unit by themselves is they are kinda flimsy and are going to draw fire. I feel like it is just too easy for your opponent to focus them off the board and score some easy battle log. 

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Alone they will die just the same as when they are with a squadron. 

 

Out of the squadron they can shunt/be where they are needed unhindered by command checks and can prove more useful to all ships in range. 

 

Personally ill be keeping these separate. Ill focus on aiding cruisers or a capital ship gain an extra arc of fire but I dont know how easy hitting the rear of enemy ships will be with them. 

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If at the end of the Secondary Movement segment one or more models in the Squadron are outside of coherency, the Squadron is considered to be Disordered, as if it had failed a Disorder Test (see Page 48).

 

I think I had the rule right... but you are more right reddwarf, the precedent set by sirens (and i have used them in their full beardyness with eye of rense) would indicate no negatives to the ships themselves... I suppose the disconnect was that i was referring to the tactic that is 2 aegis spread out out of coherency on purpose as an option for a squad of sulis to maximize broadsides from a dread or the likes which is why i asked about firing solutions as it has never applied nor would it to sirens because you wouldn't spread them in this way... well i hope you wouldn't

 

Shunting one in could be a good tactic as it does not change your activations but might your opponents, you use it as a way to fire at vulnerable sectors but its 6AD wont warrant an activation and any squads positioned to fire on the victim should have LOS to the sulis and will also benefit... while this will make it a priority a squad that is not shooting ships with AD 

 

HOWEVER: shunting in a single tier 2 into the middle of most fleets (including my aqauns) is just asking to be boarded and taken as a prize that then gives BL to the opposing fleet and they're still free to fire as normal... or leave you a mine... that tac seems to be best for attacking well terrans... silly humies

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Grab 2 Shivas + Sulis, and then an Oannes + Sulis. Place them on a board about 18" apart running parallel.

Smack some Chimaeras down somewhere.

Then haphazardly and randomly place groupings of enemy ships around the board in various locations to represent the various situations/positions that normally occur in a game.

It's the Aquan force's go to activate, now consider all the possibilities those Sulis cruisers give any of those 3 Aquan activations.

Most importantly don't think of it's redirection ability as having to be tied to the ship it is accompanying, think of the capacity for any other Aquan squad to use it.

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Got my RotO box yesterday. The following is very weird IMO

For the Oannes Carrier:

" A Heavy Carrier takes up TWO Carrier (and hence Tier 1) slots in the Fleet Tier list"

 

This means it can't be used for Patrol fleets and I can't see (m)any occasions where I would take it, if I lose the option of taking another Tier 1.

 

Thoughts?

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There's nothing wrong with using two Tier 1 choices at 800; otherwise, it wouldn't be an option. I can see why you felt dirty if you were using a Battleship and Battlestation, but 2 Carriers seems good to me.

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Uhoh22

Dont shelve the disco ball of death !!!! Lol

I understand the it counts as 2 carriers for a patrol fleet list but for battle and grand fleets it doesnt make sense when you can take a dreadnought as a single tier 1. I thinl that rule should be for patrol fleets only.

Thats just from my two nights with the book (woo hoo its arrived) but i still need to build paint and play with it so its just speculation from me at the moment.

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