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ahmadan

The new RotO ships

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So, what are peoples impressions? For those of you who haven't bothered to hunt down the stats, what do you think of the looks?

 

Personally, I'm really impressed with both the Oannes and the Shiva, both visually and rules-wise. I can definitely see myself using the Oannes as main T1 for Patrol Fleet games, and as a support ship along the Dagon in larger games, if I want to keep an SRS focus.

 

The Sulis I'm hoping will grow on me when I actually get hold of it, still a nice ship, but not reaching the 'Need now!' level of the other two ships.

Then again, the new tactical possibilities have me very intrigued to start playing with them, especially as an accompaniment... 

 

 

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Actually Ahmadan I was going to ask for your impressions of the ships! You're one of the better Aquan contributors around here so I'm curios what you think.

Aquan Oannes looks like a solid ship but I can't say I see it as a replacement for a Poseidon. Looks like a great ship for smaller than 800 point fleets and a nice "also" option at 1200 points.

Gunships look good but fragile. It'll be intersting to see all the pinball tactics people come up with for the R&D ahips.

Zak

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They are quite different to our current range of ships

No mines

No -1 turn limit (though they are still usually better off the bat)

No rear firepower

A lot tougher (except cr but with reinforced fore) and more forward firepower

I like them and they dont seem auto takes but nicely fill gaps in our rosters

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dont forget that the Oannes has access to "difficult target" MAR. That in itself is a huge deffensive asset.

also as I've been analysing, squads of 2 vessels are fragile but it also lowers alot the point cost, allowing you to gian more activations... maybe not a lot but usefull

note. im gonna start Aquans with this new box, excuse my newbyness with aquan warfare ;)

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Ok, I finally got access to some of the ships. Let me give my opinions. Disclaimer: these are the opinions of someone who is a little bit sick of Aquans, in the sense that I am beginning to find them a little bit "easy button." Not overpowered, but they do the things I want them to do a little too well. Perhaps a few months of playing Sorylians will make me long for Aquan speed and maneuverability again... or perhaps not. Over in Grimdarkia, I eventually quit Eldar for the same reason.

 

Anyway.

 

The Orannes

 

I like it. I definitely appreciate that we finally have a carrier that focuses on forward firepower so it can actually experience synergy with the cruisers it likes to take as accompaniment. The only shame is that we can't pair it up with our old-fashioned heavies - that would have been neat. I think that more limited number of hardpoints is a very good choice which helps to keep the ship balanced, though truth be told, I think I would pretty much always go with +2 Shields, except on the rare occasion that I decided to be a total bastard and take Difficult Target so I could do an entirely Difficult/Elusive Target fleet.

 

 

Shiva-Class Gunship

 

The spoilers I saw left most of the stats off this one, but I like them. I think the option to take an accompanying Sulis-Class heavy is interesting, especially given what Sulises can do. They seem like a nasty, dirty brawler of a ship, especially with a Sulis providing alternative arcs of fire for the rest of the squadron.

 

Sulis-Class Heavy Cruiser

 

I'm not sure I can see ever bothering to take these on their own. Although they can act as a locus of fire for anyone at any time, I think they are much more powerful in combination with other ships, such as an Orannes or a squadron of Shivas. On their own, I think, it would be too easy to isolate and destroy them, or cut off their support and leave them pretty impotent. And anyway, there's nothing saying that you have to use them to redirect their own squadrons' attacks, and having them fly with an Orannes or squadron of Shivas gives you the option to redirect attacks from another source entirely to support that squadron, which seems more attractive.

 

Altogether, these are some great additions to the Aquan arsenal. I think that if/when I get back to my Aquans, I'll definitely want some!

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Looking at teasers of the stats I like that the Shiva is very much an in-your-face ship.  As Nelson signaled his fleet at Trafalgar "engage the enemy more closely."  Even the Oannes mimics that with the heavy fore armament.  The Sulis... I could see that being used by various squadrons to redirect shots around terrain or in the rear arcs depending on deployment and the rules.

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High praises, Zak!... Thanks.

 

Looking at the actual stats (which may yet change before hitting the fleet guide..), I'm very happy with both the Shiva and the Oannes; both are something I've wanted to see more of (i.e ships with large amounts of forward firepower).

 

The Shiva shares some similarities with the Namazu Heavy Cruiser (tough ship with lots of forward firepower), but with a bit longer range, and feels a bit more like a rapier to the CAs broadsword, especially with the addition of the Sulis as attachment (with the Cmd Distance upgrade on the Sulis, one should be able to get a decent blast in with the lead ship in RB2, and the link ship in RB1 (to keep coherence).

Two shields seems like the more common choice, though, although 15AD from a two ship squadron is tempting, 13AD and 2SH is more survivable.

 

The Oannes feels a bit like a pocket battleship; tough, with a lot of firepower, and no SRS MARS...

As a pure brawler I'd probably go with a regular BB most of the time, but the SRS and potential hardpoints/upgrades makes it a bit more of a toolkit.

Also; just like Electric Paladin above I'm very happy about the Forward arc on its main weapons...

A Oannes with a Shiva for accompaniment is a scary though... Especially if both are kitted with dual shields.

 

The Sulis is something I've wanted for some time as well, a way to play up the trickster aspect of the Aquans (much like my beloved pointy ears in the grimdark 6mm game...)

Probably not an autoinclude, but a nice option for a bit more complex playstyle.

I see a few reasons to take a separate squadron: Having access to two at the same time (enabling two squadrons to hit the same target), and keeping the shooting squadron in RB2 of the Sulis, being able to ignore coherency makes it a bit easier to stay 10" away.

 

 

Edit: Yay, post 600!

Edited by ahmadan

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Oannes and Shiva look nice enough, esp. when taken in a single squadron. They do away with all the aquan staples like mines, all-round firepower so hopefully they will be bit less of an auto-play....

 

That being said, after squinting at the sulis, I don't really see much use for it, compared to land version- mostly because the aquan ships are tough and fast enough to not need to hide. Shunting it for aft-pinball seems the way to go. All things considered, a gimmick that seems fun, but useless in face of aquan upfront brutality :P It just doesn't seem to fit the khorne-esque nature of the fleet.

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That being said, after squinting at the sulis, I don't really see much use for it, compared to land version- mostly because the aquan ships are tough and fast enough to not need to hide. Shunting it for aft-pinball seems the way to go. All things considered, a gimmick that seems fun, but useless in face of aquan upfront brutality :P It just doesn't seem to fit the khorne-esque nature of the fleet.

 

Personally, I see it as a way to get RB2 beam dice at 40".  By my reading of the rules you target the Sulis, so your AD is determined by range to the Sulis, then AD is added/subtracted for Energy locus, then you use that full dice pool on a target within 20" of the Sulis.  So the Crystal cruiser is the only thing up front where they can shoot back effectively, everything else is back in RB3 or 4.  Seems like it can be good. 

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I thought of a better use for the Sulis. Having one on the disengaged side of your battleship means you can fire both broadsides at one target.

 

Forget that...

 

Put two on either side of a Manta as it marches straight towards your enemy and have them flanked with extended command distance several inches up. Can you say twin 15 dice broadsides firing forward at 25" inches at a Praetorian :D.

 

Muhahahahaahah!!!

 

Ahem.

 

Zak

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As entertaining as the Sulis is, I have to admit that it is solidifying my decision to move away from Aquans. The more we discuss the possibilities it opens up, the more I feel that the Aquans are becoming the faction that just ignores the rules. They're already fast, maneuverable, and have guns in all arcs. Now they have a ship that you can fly alongside other ships so that you can arrange for arcs to not matter at all. I don't know if it's OP, but it is starting to sound really unfun, at least for me.

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They can, you are right, but the price is 50pts per ship or so, right? So 2 of them to do the trick listed by Zak is 100pts that is NOT going to battleships, battlecarriers or cruisers. Cool as the ability to light-bend sounds, I'd rather slap on 80pts extra, and take a 2nd battleship, even barebone, instead- I may be alone in that opinion, but I will take raw firepower and extra HP over gimmicks every day.

 

Although I will agree that the Aquans suffer a bit from lack of direction in their ships, hopefully the RotO ships will be such a turning point.

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I don't know... For me, it's an additional option when constructing a list. While I agree that raw firepower is probably more cost effective, optional ways of playing keeps the opponent guessing (and me entertained).

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I do think its the specialist rules like this bending, terran shield ships ect are the hardest to pin down.

getting the balance of flavour, rules and point costs seems a nightmare for games but i am quite happy with the progress (its sooo much smoother than v1) that the game has made and i think they will be good

I have all types of ships for aquans and this is even more models wanting a place in my fleet lists - i am finding it tough choices to build my fleets as it is - what a lovely position for a gamer

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I don't know... For me, it's an additional option when constructing a list. While I agree that raw firepower is probably more cost effective, optional ways of playing keeps the opponent guessing (and me entertained).

What I'm trying to say is that you essentially pay 60 or 120pts for a *potential* extra shot from your BB's broadside or extended shot. It's a fun gimmick, and potentially can be used to your advantage, but it doesn't make the aquans any easier to play because unlike just zooming into 20" range it requires setting up a combo so to say, and one that can be easily bummed by mis-rolled command test, and it doesn't make them any stronger, because again, 120pts that could be spent on DT'd cruisers or 1/2  a battleship.

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like Pok said, a cool gimmick that can give up 4 BL pretty quickly. AND betting able to refocus both Broadsides from a Tier 1 ship, will make those heavy cruisers a high priority target from turn 1.

I reserve further judgement until I see them on the table(hopefully very soon).

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I suspect they'll be the ship voted "most likely to cause a raging forum argument about OP vs **** vs eh vs fun option".

 

I know in Planetfall redirecting shots with crystals can be useful, but is also a bit tricky.  And that's in a far more static environment.  The crystals don't move at all, and it's a lot easier for units to hide behind terrain because they almost all have the equivalent of maneuverable, no min move, wing-like turning for everything not lumbering, and can move the turn after stopping without losing a movement segment to removing a full stop token.  Whereas Armada has minimum moves, turn limits, a general desire to not come completely to a stop because it messes with movement the next turn, and limited maneuverable ships.   Plus Planetfall rewards flank and aft shots, not just aft like Armada.

 

I'm not saying it's useless, just that I think it will be trickier than some think to actually use.  If Zaknafn wants to use a squadron to either side of a BB to allow both broadsides to fire forward he's using 3 activations to do so, the first two of which don't actually generate much AD on their own as the Sulis move into position.  I don't know about you, but I generally find that during the crucial mid-game turns I want to activate my biggest guns first, before my opponent kills or hurts them.  Degrade his AD before he degrades mine.

 

I suspect it will be more cool shots of opportunity than anything else, but time will tell.  Extend range sometimes, sometimes allow a different arc to bear, get around sectored shields or reinforced arcs, allow a firing arc offline to be ignored occasionally, etc...

 

But get ready for people to play one game with them and start shouting that they "suck!" or "are totally OP!" :rolleyes:

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