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Just wondering about  CAP...

 

1. If a model with CAP fires its AA at SAS, interception attack. Can the cap join?

(I suppose not, but???) If they can join, can the other SAS fight back???

 

 

2. If you want to fire at the CAP only, can you do so? If you have fighters, can you engage the CAP without interference from the parent model?

(I suppose so)

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1) no, if SAS attack SAS and incage in a dogfight then the model cannt shoot (they're scared of hitting hitting their own SAS)

2) yep, correct they are a supperate element of the sqn

 

Thank you. But, the CaP can engange in a dogfight even dough it is in cap??? I know you can link in an aggressive counter attack action, if they are attacked, but can you engange in a dogfight actively? Then I suppose you still measures distance from the parent model, so they have to be within 4'' of the parent model to engange?

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Still wondering though. It states explicitly what you can do, but not what it cannot do. I'm still wondering wether they could fire their AA at enemy fighters/divebombers aggressively if within 4''... I'm guessing they cannot link with the parent atleast, but can they do that independently? I'm guessing not, but...

 

 

And another question regarding SAS:

 

Can a dive-bomber or Torpedo-bomber initiate fights against other SAS if they have already spend their bombs?

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Still wondering though. It states explicitly what you can do, but not what it cannot do. I'm still wondering wether they could fire their AA at enemy fighters/divebombers aggressively if within 4''... I'm guessing they cannot link with the parent atleast, but can they do that independently? I'm guessing not, but...

they can dogfight independently of their parent (useful if you want to attack a large/massive that also has a CAP)

 

And another question regarding SAS:

 

Can a dive-bomber or Torpedo-bomber initiate fights against other SAS if they have already spend their bombs? Yes they can. They are just required to ditch their ordnance if the want to initiate a dogfight

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Still wondering though. It states explicitly what you can do, but not what it cannot do. I'm still wondering wether they could fire their AA at enemy fighters/divebombers aggressively if within 4''... I'm guessing they cannot link with the parent atleast, but can they do that independently? I'm guessing not, but...

And another question regarding SAS:

Can a dive-bomber or Torpedo-bomber initiate fights against other SAS if they have already spend their bombs?

On your first point.

I believe SAS can if it detaches from CAP during command and control activation segment.

On the second point.

Yes, the SAS still retains it's Ordnance Away marker until it's rearmed buy a carrier.

Hopefully this helps.

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Still wondering though. It states explicitly what you can do, but not what it cannot do. I'm still wondering wether they could fire their AA at enemy fighters/divebombers aggressively if within 4''... I'm guessing they cannot link with the parent atleast, but can they do that independently? I'm guessing not, but...

they can dogfight independently of their parent (useful if you want to attack a large/massive that also has a CAP)

And another question regarding SAS:

Can a dive-bomber or Torpedo-bomber initiate fights against other SAS if they have already spend their bombs? Yes they can. They are just required to ditch their ordnance if the want to initiate a dogfight

Nazduruk

where does it say CAP can act independent of the parent model and that Torpedo planes and bombers have to drop their ordnance? I'm not questioning, but trying to find it in DW 2.0

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Can a dive-bomber or Torpedo-bomber initiate fights against other SAS if they have already spend their bombs? Yes they can. They are just required to ditch their ordnance if the want to initiate a dogfight

 

 

This is incorrect.  Attack Runs are separate from Dogfights and you only gain an ordinance marker for Attack Runs.

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Nazduruk

where does it say CAP can act independent of the parent model and that Torpedo planes and bombers have to drop their ordnance? I'm not questioning, but trying to find it in DW 2.0

 

It doesn't say that CAP can act independent of the parent. On the contrary, cap is always base to base contact with the parent model. It does say watch allowed on page 180, but not what it cannot do while in CAP.  Thus, me asking.

 

Page 169, the rules for attack runs are written. Dive bombers and torpedo bombers gain an ordinance way marker game marker. And they cannot attack again without rearming. But if your carrier is gone, that is not going to happen. You may as well send them to try to kill some opponents with they're AA. Can they? 

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Still wondering though. It states explicitly what you can do, but not what it cannot do. I'm still wondering wether they could fire their AA at enemy fighters/divebombers aggressively if within 4''... I'm guessing they cannot link with the parent atleast, but can they do that independently? I'm guessing not, but...

they can dogfight independently of their parent (useful if you want to attack a large/massive that also has a CAP)

 

And another question regarding SAS:

 

Can a dive-bomber or Torpedo-bomber initiate fights against other SAS if they have already spend their bombs? Yes they can. They are just required to ditch their ordnance if the want to initiate a dogfight

 

 

So they can attack SAS with AA without ordnance, but not a air model?

 

Thus you can

1) send your fighters in to kill the CAP in a dogfight without interference from the parrent.

 

2) and you can send your BB within 4'' of an enemy SAS and initiate a dogfight with an enemy? (but then they cannot link with the parent?)

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On your first point.

I believe SAS can if it detaches from CAP during command and control activation segment.

On the second point.

Yes, the SAS still retains it's Ordnance Away marker until it's rearmed buy a carrier.

Hopefully this helps.

 

First point: that would be how I would have made the rules if I made them.

And, yes, it is clear that you can attack IF you detach. But if you don't detach, I guess you cannot?

Exactly what I was asking by the way.

 

The second point, my dive-bombers got killed a BB, but my carrier is killed, so they got nowhere to go. I cannot make another attack run this game ever. The question then, can I send them into a suicide mission to hopefully kill some fighters? I guess I can, right.

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@tank0625

I dont think so. As i read it you can detach your cap during this segment. It the receives an acytivated token so basically its turn is over..

@grandstone.

If you dont detach you can attack with your cap. You can take the entire parent model as your model in counting range.

Second point

Yes the way i see it.

Small stupid question of my own. But really just reaffirming what i think.

If my normal flying model is at 8 inch range it can ackack a sas squad. But the sas squad can only return fire if it is within 4 inch? Or is it reciprocal?

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@tank0625

I dont think so. As i read it you can detach your cap during this segment. It the receives an acytivated token so basically its turn is over..

Do you have a page number for this? I was thinking of making a cheat sheet.

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Page 126

A cp will detach under the following circumstances gaining an activation marker.

During the c&c step of the parent model it may elect to detach the cp voluntarily.

As i see it that is before the move and attack part and basically the cap is regrouping that turn from curcling the parent model...

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Page 126

A cp will detach under the following circumstances gaining an activation marker.

During the c&c step of the parent model it may elect to detach the cp voluntarily.

As i see it that is before the move and attack part and basically the cap is regrouping that turn from curcling the parent model...

Copy thank you.

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Small stupid question of my own. But really just reaffirming what i think.

If my normal flying model is at 8 inch range it can ackack a sas squad. But the sas squad can only return fire if it is within 4 inch? Or is it reciprocal?

 

Good observation. As I read it, no the SAS cannot counter attack if your normal flying model is further than 4 inch from the model. This means you can safely use your AA at ranges 4-8 inches.

This also means, that you can attack that BB with CAP at ranges 4-8 inches without risking counter attacks.

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CAP for me are some of the most bizzare rules that exist in the book

 

So CAP joins a model, but is completely at risk from normal attacks but if attacked by SAS gain no benefit from the parent model. 

Its almost as odd as aggressive AA being 8" range and defensive being only 4". ( whereby the very same AA guns can fire twice as far in your turn but not your opponents..........logic error)

 

I appreciate its all a fine balance and that CAP's that cant die would make boarding fleets useless, but by the same token I feel CAP's are somewhat odd.

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